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+--- Thread: New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! (/thread-4492.html)
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Brother Laz - 04-18-2006
Monkey,Apr 18 2006, 04:17 PM Wrote:Also regarding balance--how would they handle mixing Shaman totems (Mana Spring, Tranquil air, etc.) with Paladin buffs (Wisdom, Salvation, etc.)? It could completely trivialize some encounters. Or imagine attempting Razorgore with a combination of low-aggro heals and earthbind totem.
Not a reason. In Lord of Destruction, they added so much new stuff (charms, mercs, class items) that Normal difficulty became trivial. On top of that, they nerfed all slightly difficult encounters. Ever wondered why Bremm Sparkfist isn't LE?
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - lfd - 04-18-2006
Brother Laz,Apr 18 2006, 11:13 PM Wrote:Ever wondered why Bremm Sparkfist isn't LE?
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He is, since 1.10. In fact, since they broke the fixed auras for superuniques with "aura enchanted" as a mod, he can actually spawn much nastier, as you can pick up - randomly - might or conviction instead of the relatively innocuous Blessed Aim he always had pre-LOD.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Zarathustra - 04-19-2006
If not for the supposed hint of the new race starting in Azeroth, I'd say Shatterspear Trolls.
Chew on that one for a bit.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Rinnhart - 04-19-2006
lfd,Apr 18 2006, 03:59 PM Wrote:He is, since 1.10. In fact, since they broke the fixed auras for superuniques with "aura enchanted" as a mod, he can actually spawn much nastier, as you can pick up - randomly - might or conviction instead of the relatively innocuous Blessed Aim he always had pre-LOD.
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And to recap- Bremm + conviction + EF LEB vampire boss pack in the stair-area = PARTY
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - fractaled - 04-19-2006
Zarathustra,Apr 19 2006, 12:48 AM Wrote:If not for the supposed hint of the new race starting in Azeroth, I'd say Shatterspear Trolls.That'd be such a cop-out on Blizzard's part.
Chew on that one for a bit.
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I'm already a little annoyed that there will be two elven factions in the game. It's like choosing between the different "races" of humans.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Mavfin - 04-19-2006
fractaled,Apr 18 2006, 10:09 PM Wrote:That'd be such a cop-out on Blizzard's part.
I'm already a little annoyed that there will be two elven factions in the game. It's like choosing between the different "races" of humans.
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The Blood Elves were put in to get some numbers on the Horde side of those players (and we all know them) who won't play a 'non-pretty' race. :P
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Zarathustra - 04-19-2006
Mavfin,Apr 19 2006, 07:57 AM Wrote:The Blood Elves were put in to get some numbers on the Horde side of those players (and we all know them) who won't play a 'non-pretty' race. :P
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It just makes sense to me that they'd introduce something like that. And the Shatterspear Trolls have even been featured on the main page now for that contest that's going on. Look in the background and you'll see their village. All speculation, but an offshoot of a forest troll tribe could be called "leafy" too, to reference the hint we were given months ago.
If not that tribe itself, another "renegade" tribe could be used, and that could be one of their base camps out and about in the world. The Blood Elves have that camp out in Azshara, I believe.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Rinnhart - 04-19-2006
Zarathustra,Apr 19 2006, 06:22 AM Wrote:It just makes sense to me that they'd introduce something like that. And the Shatterspear Trolls have even been featured on the main page now for that contest that's going on. Look in the background and you'll see their village. All speculation, but an offshoot of a forest troll tribe could be called "leafy" too, to reference the hint we were given months ago.
If not that tribe itself, another "renegade" tribe could be used, and that could be one of their base camps out and about in the world. The Blood Elves have that camp out in Azshara, I believe.
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Hrm, but the Azshara blood elves are targets for at least the mage level 50 quest.
Oh yeah, don't try to AE those... they blastwave.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Monkey - 04-19-2006
Zarathustra,Apr 19 2006, 10:22 AM Wrote:It just makes sense to me that they'd introduce something like that. And the Shatterspear Trolls have even been featured on the main page now for that contest that's going on. Look in the background and you'll see their village. All speculation, but an offshoot of a forest troll tribe could be called "leafy" too, to reference the hint we were given months ago.
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Well, the dancing troll village *is* in Kalimdor next to Darkshore. Although Caydiem once cited it as something in the game "just for ambience", the possibility exists that they could expand it into a capital and build a starting zone around it to the northwest of moonglade.
They'd have to expand the land a bit, but there's not a lot of unaccounted-for land in Kalimdor, anyway (as there is in the Eastern Kingdoms). If they want to put the new race's capital there, they'll have to expand it.
~m
As an aside, how crazy is it that we aren't (supposed to be) able to visit the Ironforge airport? I mean, my alliance characters have traveled to the molten depths of the planet and killed a god, but they can't go look at planes? OOOH NOT THE PLANES OH NOES.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Lissa - 04-19-2006
Monkey,Apr 18 2006, 08:03 AM Wrote:So the Draenei from WC3 still work for Illidan:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrus...l/bestiary.html
Check out The Broken, note in the description:
(emphasis mine)
I think Draenei can be ruled out as the New Alliance race because of their 'shamanistic heritage' . Alliance can't have Shaman any more than the Horde can have Paladins. Now, it's clear that no Blood Elf would turn 'towards the light', but why would a shamanistic people turn away from their faith?
So who could it be? From the rumormongering and detail aggregation sites I've read regarding the new Alliance race, there are a few requirements:
1. Related to Outland / The Burning Crusade
2. "Cool" but not necessarily "Pretty"
3. Starting zone in Azeroth (Outland is all >level 50 stuff)
4. Small enough to fit through all doors in Stormwind/Ironforge/Darnassus
5. Not Kool-aid Man
I didn't put bipedal on the list, but I'm pretty sure it should be there--explaining away boots on something with a tail (naga) or four feet (dryads) would just not be good game lore in my opinion.
I like the worgan and ogre ideas, but I know there's no hard information. Anyone else have any new thoughts on this? Think I've gone insane?
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Right now, I'm sticking with Draeni. There are easy ways of making it so they lost their shamanic traditions in Azeroth (cut off from Ancestor spirits and such). Likewise, there is an area east of Redridge and north of Swamp of Sorrows that could work as a starting area for the Draeni. The other advantages is that the Draeni have ties to Outland (just as the Blood Elves do).
The only other possible race I could see for the Alliance to get would be Ogres as they too would have ties to Outland (it is where the Ogres came from). Where to place the Ogres start area would be interesting as well, possible the area northwest of Elwynn and west of Dun Morgor. (Potentially somewhere on Kalimdor too, but where I'm not sure and why I don't know either since I don't recall any Ogre mobs in Kalimdor.)
A third possibility, but I put this much lower on the list than the above two, would be either Quillboar or Centaur. Quillboar because they are trying survive and the Horde are making it difficult. Centaur due to the quest chains in Desolace with the Alliance trying to form an alliance with one of the tribes there. The problem that arises from these races is that there is no ties to Outland and locating a capital city in the vicinity of Orgrimmar and Thunder Bluff would be difficult to say the least.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Rinnhart - 04-19-2006
Lissa,Apr 19 2006, 06:50 AM Wrote:The only other possible race I could see for the Alliance to get would be Ogres as they too would have ties to Outland (it is where the Ogres came from). Where to place the Ogres start area would be interesting as well, possible the area northwest of Elwynn and west of Dun Morgor. (Potentially somewhere on Kalimdor too, but where I'm not sure and why I don't know either since I don't recall any Ogre mobs in Kalimdor.)
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Dire Maul?
<3
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Kevin - 04-19-2006
Lissa,Apr 19 2006, 09:50 AM Wrote:Right now, I'm sticking with Draeni. There are easy ways of making it so they lost their shamanic traditions in Azeroth (cut off from Ancestor spirits and such). Likewise, there is an area east of Redridge and north of Swamp of Sorrows that could work as a starting area for the Draeni. The other advantages is that the Draeni have ties to Outland (just as the Blood Elves do).
The only other possible race I could see for the Alliance to get would be Ogres as they too would have ties to Outland (it is where the Ogres came from). Where to place the Ogres start area would be interesting as well, possible the area northwest of Elwynn and west of Dun Morgor. (Potentially somewhere on Kalimdor too, but where I'm not sure and why I don't know either since I don't recall any Ogre mobs in Kalimdor.)
A third possibility, but I put this much lower on the list than the above two, would be either Quillboar or Centaur. Quillboar because they are trying survive and the Horde are making it difficult. Centaur due to the quest chains in Desolace with the Alliance trying to form an alliance with one of the tribes there. The problem that arises from these races is that there is no ties to Outland and locating a capital city in the vicinity of Orgrimmar and Thunder Bluff would be difficult to say the least.
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There is the large area south of the Badlands and north of Redridge that could be used as a start zone that feeds into Redridge, might have to be a slighlty more fleshes out area than Elwynn to make the the transistion to Redridge better but eh. Though I guess Redridge is technically contested, I've never understood why and I don't see why they couldn't change that. Ogre could easily start there as it is close to Blackrock (just east of it) and well Blackrock was the home of the horde (with their ogre allies) for quite some time plenty of time for Ogres to expand out to the east and set up a home.
I don't see the Centaur since horde does the exact same thing as alliance does out there in desolace with building faction with one tribe. While horde has more problems with Centaur it's only because the Centaur home continent is Kalimdor and that is where the Horde had to set up shop. If you follow the quest line on the alliance side, alliance is having the same problems with them and that is part of the reason you are trying to get the tribes to go to war with each other. Wipe them out so that you can mop up what is left of both sides. It's not as important for alliance since they aren't on the doorsteps of their capitols like it is for horde though.
Quillboar could be interesting, many of the horde quests talk about how it would be a damn scary sight if the quillboar tribes were united, kinda like what happened when the orc tribes finally united and stopped fighting themselves. As you mentioned though, no ties to Outland.
I think the draeni seem to be the forerunner in my mind too. Though I think it will be a prettier version than what we see in the game. Looks do play a part in my decision on races though I do play all races. Humans, undead and night elves are my least favorite races to play in that order, mainly for superficial reasons. The human females are just too vapid, the males are too corny and the race is so damn corrupt at the top levels all the time in every WoW game I just always feel like any thing I do for them will turn out to cause some huge world effecting problem. The constantly exposed knees and elbows on the undead as well and the posture bugs me, but the biggest reason is I still feel they shouldn't be part of the horde and only are because Blizzard had to put them somewhere and didn't want to try and tackle 3 major player factions. You follow the early quests and undead are still out to kill everyone, including other horde members. I do also have problems playing female trolls because of how they run, the knock kneed running style bugs me.
What is the point of that? Well I can find no connection at all to Draeni to find a real reason to play them. Maybe if I finally finish the WarIII expansion single player stuff (I've done all the rest of the warcraft games) there might be more of a connection. I've done the blood elf campaign so I've got a small connection with them but will likely only play one because I know some of my friends are planning to start horde because of them and it would be nice to be in the same start zone with them. There also isn't anything in the look of the draeni that is appealing on any level. There is a 'coolness' factor to trolls, orcs, undead, and tauren on different levels. There is the silly cute factor for gnomes. Dwarves and elves have such long fantasy traditions outside of games that they have appeal on those levels as well even if these are different versions of them. I just can't find many levels of connection to draeni like other races for people. Sure I will have one if that is the race just to have one, but it will be like my one human character. I have one so I have one.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - lemekim - 04-19-2006
There is a bit of dsicrepancy between the description for the Broken and our previous knowledge of the Draenei.
If one remembers in Warcraft 3, TFT expansion, Draenei fought against the corrupted Orcs and when Illidan found them, they were fighting under leadership of Akama for their lives against demon Magtheridon and his minions. This somewhat implies that they were still fairly uncorrupted when they joined Illidan.
But when we look at the description on Blizzard's website for the "Broken", it states that "The Broken, led by the great Akama, fell prey to the demons' sinister influence, and just like the orcs, they too were changed by the corruption."
I am not sure why there is such a discrepancy. It sounds like something happened in-between WC3:TFT time and "now". If something did happen, perhaps some kind of corruption took/is taking place, one can easily imagine that there will be a splinter faction that is trying to resist this corruption, and would seek help in this matter, most likely from Alliance. The "Shamanistic" nature of Draenei does pose a problem here, but hey, we already have Troll priests, so perhaps Draenei healers could be priests.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Artega - 04-19-2006
Ogres are found almost everywhere, in nearly every zone in the game. They appear in Feralas (Gordunni) and Tanaris (Dunemaul) on Kalimdor, and probably other areas that I'm not remembering.
They would never ally themselves with the Alliance, regardless of hatred for the races of the Horde - they split from the Horde due to the Orcs' slowly regaining sanity. The Ogres thrive on battle and bloodlust, and since the Alliance was never anything like that to begin with (and - quite frankly - are pansies compared to the Horde races, regardless of personal preference), they'd probably kill them and eat them before even bothering to say something besides a monosyllabic war cry to them.
Draenei are still - by far - looking to be the most likely race for Alliance, though they'll definitely need a facelift (Orcs and Tauren aren't pretty, but they're not nearly as ugly as the existing Draenei NPCs and mobs) if that's going to happen. A starting zone between Redridge and Swamp of Sorrows sounds ideal, placing them near the other Alliance capitals, allowing them to branch out to Redridge and Swamp of Sorrows fairly early (perhaps make their starting zone 1-20 instead of 1-10), and giving them close proximity to the Dark Portal located in Blasted Lands. It makes perfect sense, though I think Blizzard will be mangling their plot by making it happen.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - MongoJerry - 04-19-2006
Artega,Apr 19 2006, 01:52 PM Wrote:Ogres are found almost everywhere, in nearly every zone in the game. They appear in Feralas (Gordunni) and Tanaris (Dunemaul) on Kalimdor, and probably other areas that I'm not remembering.
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An ogre group has a town in Dustwallow Marsh, Brackenwall Village, that is marginally tolerant of the Horde but is definitely ogre run. The ogres there were kicked out of their homes by Onyxia and her brood. Their old homes are the burnt ruins you see near Onyxia's lair.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Lissa - 04-19-2006
Artega,Apr 19 2006, 01:52 PM Wrote:Ogres are found almost everywhere, in nearly every zone in the game. They appear in Feralas (Gordunni) and Tanaris (Dunemaul) on Kalimdor, and probably other areas that I'm not remembering.
They would never ally themselves with the Alliance, regardless of hatred for the races of the Horde - they split from the Horde due to the Orcs' slowly regaining sanity. The Ogres thrive on battle and bloodlust, and since the Alliance was never anything like that to begin with (and - quite frankly - are pansies compared to the Horde races, regardless of personal preference), they'd probably kill them and eat them before even bothering to say something besides a monosyllabic war cry to them.
Draenei are still - by far - looking to be the most likely race for Alliance, though they'll definitely need a facelift (Orcs and Tauren aren't pretty, but they're not nearly as ugly as the existing Draenei NPCs and mobs) if that's going to happen. A starting zone between Redridge and Swamp of Sorrows sounds ideal, placing them near the other Alliance capitals, allowing them to branch out to Redridge and Swamp of Sorrows fairly early (perhaps make their starting zone 1-20 instead of 1-10), and giving them close proximity to the Dark Portal located in Blasted Lands. It makes perfect sense, though I think Blizzard will be mangling their plot by making it happen.
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Yeah, I forgot about the ogres in Tanaris and Feralas, goes to show how long it's been since I've been in that area... :P
Anyway, I disagree on the Ogres for one simple reason, in WC2:BtDP, there is a tribe of Ogres that help the Alliance fight the Horde. Some of that tribe may have escaped into Azeroth before Draenor was ripped asunder by the various portals that were opened.
So, there is potential for there to be Ogres that are friendly towards the Alliance.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - JustAGuy - 04-19-2006
Gnollguy,Apr 18 2006, 12:49 PM Wrote:Well something like improved grace of air (77 * 1.15) = 88.55 agility. Then you put Blessing of Kings on top of that. 88.55 * 1.10 = 97.4 agility for anyone in that. And you can do the same with strength of earth for the str 97.4 str.
... So we can add 1K armor from devo aura, the shaman air and earth totems for that extra damage (more aggro) and extra dodge (less damage).
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Just a minor nit and aside: you're correct that the added dodge and crit is nice from the grace of air, but despite the upgraded version being so nice, Windfury is the totem of choice in the Main Tank (or any tank, really) group. Playing as the #1 Shaman in my guild, I know this from experience. A knowledgeable Main Tank will always prefer and request Windfury over Grace of Air, as the frequently occurring extra swing (which swings with increased AP as well) produces extra rage and extra aggro. As you may know, aggro is the ultimate goal of the main tank; the extra hard hitting swings afforded the main tank produce the rage necessary to quickly gobble up aggro. Dodging is nice and all, but getting hit hard also generates a lot of rage, so the dodge element from Grace of Air is not of real concern. The only trade-off between Windfury and Grace of Air is the % to crit. The extra rage generated by extra swings, and in turn, extra aggro, outweighs the threat generated by a crit.
In the main tank group, Windfury is always priority. Totem drop order goes Resistance totem (if required), Windfury, Strength, extra (say a searing totem, or mana totem).
In anything other than a main tank group, Shaman and Paladin combos aren't really a big concern, considering Paladin auras are 1 at a time and Paladin buffs affect the entire party/raid. The combination of a Paladin and Shaman together would only be beneficial for the Shaman and Paladin; totems and blessings with an aura together would be nice.
Now, in my guild, I'm usually solo in the main tank group as a Shaman. It usually goes, Warrior (MT), Shaman, Warlock (For the Imp), Priest, and "other" (sometimes a hunter for the aspect, sometimes a mage, sometimes a druid for extra healing, sometimes another shaman for crazy totemage). If Paladins were magically allowed to roll on the horde side, an ideal group for us would be: Warrior, Priest, Shaman, Paladin, Warlock. A nice Defense, or Resistance aura, Kings or Might buff for the MT, mana regen buff for the shaman, aggro reducer for the priest, windfury, strength and mana spring for all to share. It'd be a thing of beauty. Problem is, that'll never happen, because Paladins are Alliance only, and will always be Alliance only. Same for Shamans being Horde only. It's one of the selling points of the game! :D
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - JustAGuy - 04-19-2006
Artega,Apr 18 2006, 04:28 PM Wrote:Apples to potatoes. The only real reason to choice one faction over another - besides personal preference and/or overactive testosterone production - is whether you want Pallies or Shammies fighting for loot with you (Pallies fighting Warriors, Shammies fighting Hunters.)
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Your comparison isn't completely accurate. Paladins can fight Warriors for practically all their loot and make relatively good use out of it (as good as a paladin could, that is... Click Seal of Command, wait... ), save for a few weapon types. Swords, axes, maces, shields, all the plate they can get their hands on, and even polearms. Practically everything a Warrior can use, a Paladin can use, and will eventually roll/bid on.
Only very particular builds of Shaman will fight with Hunters for loot. Certain mail pieces, particularly those with +AP and some int, will be fought for between Enhancement Shamans and Hunters. Most Hunter-esque mail is ignored by Elemental and Resto Shamans, as they don't give nearly enough intellect to be useful. I don't see many hunters rolling around with +healing maces and daggers. Shamans aren't even capable of using polearms, bows and swords, so those aren't competed for. One point of contention however, is axes. A nice +AP axe, 2-h or 1-h, would be an asset to either class.
My Shaman has Perdition's Blade right now... So, I guess I fight for loot with rogues. ;)
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Kevin - 04-19-2006
JustAGuy,Apr 19 2006, 06:09 PM Wrote:Just a minor nit and aside: you're correct that the added dodge and crit is nice from the grace of air, but despite the upgraded version being so nice, Windfury is the totem of choice in the Main Tank (or any tank, really) group. Playing as the #1 Shaman in my guild, I know this from experience. A knowledgeable Main Tank will always prefer and request Windfury over Grace of Air, as the frequently occurring extra swing (which swings with increased AP as well) produces extra rage and extra aggro. As you may know, aggro is the ultimate goal of the main tank; the extra hard hitting swings afforded the main tank produce the rage necessary to quickly gobble up aggro. Dodging is nice and all, but getting hit hard also generates a lot of rage, so the dodge element from Grace of Air is not of real concern. The only trade-off between Windfury and Grace of Air is the % to crit. The extra rage generated by extra swings, and in turn, extra aggro, outweighs the threat generated by a crit.
In the main tank group, Windfury is always priority. Totem drop order goes Resistance totem (if required), Windfury, Strength, extra (say a searing totem, or mana totem).
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Even against things like Broodlord where you will lose aggro and 4% dodge might help save you from a bad combo that will kill you?
And the shaman paladin interaction in other groups does still matter because the blessing go everywhere.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - JustAGuy - 04-20-2006
Gnollguy,Apr 19 2006, 07:32 PM Wrote:Even against things like Broodlord where you will lose aggro and 4% dodge might help save you from a bad combo that will kill you?
You don't lose all aggro, your aggro gets reduced. The extra rage from extra hits helps maintain aggro and then recover aggro. Against Broodlord, all tanks will have to tank him sooner or later, but Windfury just means the MT will be there longer. As for getting WTFCRITPWNOHGOD'd from his Mortal Strike, that's a matter for healers. Thankfully for us, our MT has around 9k hp minimum when we do Broodlord (spirit of Zanza, Flask and standard buffs). Broodlord really is a pushover these days.
Quote:And the shaman paladin interaction in other groups does still matter because the blessing go everywhere.
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It does matter. What I was getting at was that it might not matter much, depending on the makeup of the group. The group where it is MOST important is the MT group, so much more important that, in comparison to any other group, the shaman/paladin interaction is not a big deal anywhere else.