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+--- Thread: BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive (/thread-3800.html)
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BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - teske - 10-10-2006
Quote:If you try to tell me that they specifically designed encounters for people that had Decursive or Decursive-like mods installed, I'll call you nuts. Can I be pistachio?
Well they probably thought: Anyone has decursive, let's reduce the time by 2 seconds and up the damage by 50%.
Read that quote by Slouken. To me it quite clearly states that their encounter design did take into account that most people use decursive.
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - Flymo - 10-10-2006
Quote:The /racure in CTRA is junk compared to decursive. I stopped using it after it got stuck on the same out of range person on Chromaggus all the time. Decursive does range/LOS checking before it trys to cure people. That and I don't use any raid mods anymore, except for raid frames.I'd be interested to know how it does LoS checking. Range checking you can do in an add-on using an action button, but LoS checking is as far as I know impossible. Both CTRA and Decursive handle this by having a "blacklist" of raid members who a cast has failed on, and don't try them again for 5 seconds or so.
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - Kevin - 10-10-2006
Quote:The /racure in CTRA is junk compared to decursive. I stopped using it after it got stuck on the same out of range person on Chromaggus all the time. Decursive does range/LOS checking before it trys to cure people. That and I don't use any raid mods anymore, except for raid frames.
The feature of decursive I like is that you can simply make it show a list of of who has what and you can then use that as your casting selector. That's how I use it in PvP on my paladin. My little list of who has what, clear the sheeps ignore the stupid stuff. I can tell decursive hit this person or class first, second, third, etc if I'm just in button mashing mode. It's a lot better than what CT has.
Anyway I didn't use it for a long time, but I realized after asking the RL if he could swap some groups to make things easier for me to track on a learning run on Chromaggus that I should probably get it just to be able to set the priority list. Now I generally click on a list instead of hitting a key can clicking. Sometimes I still hit the same key I did before I just don't have to click the mouse on display name, it saves either a key click or a mouse click. I can also lazy mode in a few of the other encounters while running around and paying attention to health, just smack the key and let it go off it needs to.
I still feel a bit dirty for using it though, but I'm convinced that this mod was considered when the Chromaggus fight was designed.
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - lfd - 10-10-2006
Quote:Read that quote by Slouken. To me it quite clearly states that their encounter design did take into account that most people use decursive.
I did read it (why wouldn't I have?):P
It can quite clearly state to you whatever it likes, but that doesn't make your interpretation canonical. To me, all it says is that the designers no longer need worry that certain encounters will be made easier by decursive, not that they ever specifically designed dispel-heavy encounters purely because they thought most people used it.
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - lfd - 10-10-2006
Quote:I still feel a bit dirty for using it though, but I'm convinced that this mod was considered when the Chromaggus fight was designed.
Which is odd, because it's the one dispel-heavy fight that I've never used decursive on. I find it easier to have ctra show me who is debuffed, and target them and press dispel, than to set up decursive to do it automatically. It's certainly a lot more interesting. Slower? Yes, but not wipe-threateningly so, and lets me control exactly which hunter I dispel BP:Blue from first, especially if they've had to stand in the way of a breath to tranq.
I just don't get why people think it's such a big deal.
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - oldmandennis - 10-10-2006
Quote:Well, yes - the thought was probably "You know what, guys? Decursive is really going to make this fight a lot simpler. That's a shame, isn't it? We should get the UI scripting team to look at ways to prevent it working without breaking all the other addons that don't play the game for you".
They said a long time ago they looked at breaking just decursive, and they couldn't do it without breaking everybody else. It seems now they are willing to break everybody.
Quote:If you try to tell me that they specifically designed encounters for people that had Decursive or Decursive-like mods installed, I'll call you nuts. Can I be pistachio?
Well if you look at Luci, you will see that the idea of a decurse heavy fight has been in their head from the start. They just had to tone it up becuase of Decursive.
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - Xanthix - 10-10-2006
Quote:They said a long time ago they looked at breaking just decursive, and they couldn't do it without breaking everybody else. It seems now they are willing to break everybody.
That is kind of an unfair statement. Many AddOns will be "broken," but the vast majority can be updated, and will emerge better than ever due to the additions of the "focus" target and new slash commands.
The only categories of AddOns that will not survive are decursive-like curers, clickable emergency monitors, and "lazy player" mods that cast all your spells with one button.
If there is a type of mod that does not perform automation of spellcasts that will be unfixably broken, I have confidence that it will be examined, and the UI will be changed to accomodate it if possible.
The mistake people are making is assuming that Slouken is like the other blue posters. Slouken is on "our" side, and is very responsive and helpful. I know that's hard to believe from a blue but it's true!:)
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - oldmandennis - 10-10-2006
Quote:That is kind of an unfair statement. Many AddOns will be "broken," but the vast majority can be updated, and will emerge better than ever due to the additions of the "focus" target and new slash commands.
Oh I'm not blaming them. This is the perfect time to break everything. There *should* be a lot of lead time for mod developers to work around this, and everybody needs to level to 70, and the leveling process should be less mod intensive.
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - Trien - 10-11-2006
The one casualty, which unfortunately looks like it'll be broken if I'm reading the API changes correctly, that I'll really miss is Whispercast. Not so much that it'll be a pain buffing people without out it, so much as it'll much more annoying getting buffs without it...
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - Lissa - 10-11-2006
Quote:The one casualty, which unfortunately looks like it'll be broken if I'm reading the API changes correctly, that I'll really miss is Whispercast. Not so much that it'll be a pain buffing people without out it, so much as it'll much more annoying getting buffs without it...
It will be easily fixed. The author just has to change it so that it takes the incoming whisper, looks at the name and spell, parces and does /tar whisper /cast spell(rank max)
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - Zarathustra - 10-11-2006
Quote:It will be easily fixed. The author just has to change it so that it takes the incoming whisper, looks at the name and spell, parces and does /tar whisper /cast spell(rank max)
I thought /tar functionality was being removed from addons and macros?
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - Xanthix - 10-11-2006
Quote:It will be easily fixed. The author just has to change it so that it takes the incoming whisper, looks at the name and spell, parces and does /tar whisper /cast spell(rank max)
I do not think that WhisperCast will be able to do this, since mods and macros can no longer target or cast.
But WhisperCast will still work, at least out of combat. It can create a protected button that casts the selected spell on the target person when clicked. In-combat, it can't dynamically create this button, but it can still queue up requests.
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - Flymo - 10-11-2006
Quote:I thought /tar functionality was being removed from addons and macros?Targetting functionality is being removed from the scripting language but not from macros. So you will be able to have a macro that targets a specific unit, but without script you won't be able to change that unit.
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - Lissa - 10-11-2006
Quote:I do not think that WhisperCast will be able to do this, since mods and macros can no longer target or cast.
But WhisperCast will still work, at least out of combat. It can create a protected button that casts the selected spell on the target person when clicked. In-combat, it can't dynamically create this button, but it can still queue up requests.
No, it should still be able to work with macros. They're not removing the functionality from macros themselves, just from /script. So instead of typing in /script to target, you will instead type /tar target.
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - Xanthix - 10-11-2006
Quote:No, it should still be able to work with macros. They're not removing the functionality from macros themselves, just from /script. So instead of typing in /script to target, you will instead type /tar target.
You are correct that macros can still use "/target Bob." However they can't change the text "Bob" dynamically. So macros can target people, but not dynamically. They only way I know of to target someone dynamically is to use a protected frame in an AddOn, and the unitID's of these frames can't be changed in combat.
So AFAIK WhisperCast can work out of combat, but in combat will only be able to queue up casts.
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - MongoJerry - 10-12-2006
Quote:Right back into crazyland.
Here's your reading material. You know how to roll characters- go play a warlock (or please, please say you already have one. That would be the cherry on this sundae of missing the point).
I have a warlock, but your link is broken, so it might help everyone if you simply stated what your point is, because you seem to change the point you try to make from post to post and sometimes sentence to sentence. Sometimes, your point seems to be that Decursive is a cheesy mod. On this point, we agree. Other times, your point seems to be that Decursive doesn't help you at all. On this point, we disagree.
I find that Decursive is a powerful mod that I also find cheesy in both PvE and PvP. I wish it did not exist. However, in PvE, Blizzard has clearly balanced several encounters -- Chromaggus, Noth, and Viscidus most obviously -- with the idea that most players use Decursive. To not use it would be to punish my raidmates so that I can make some sort of "statement" that nobody but I would hear. In PvP, most decursing players on both sides use it, so if I don't use it, I again gimp my team in comparison to my opponent. I will be happy when Decursive is removed. However, until it is removed for everyone and game encounters are balanced around the assumption that players don't have it, I'm going to continue to use it.
So, where exactly are we in crazyland here?
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - Professor Frink - 10-18-2006
One feature of decurisive that i haven't seen mentioned yet is that it makes a great workaround to the horrible UI behavior of the priest's dispel magic spell. Since the spell can be used on both allies and enemies, it behaves in a very broken fashion, particularly if you want to dispel a friendly without dropping your current hostile target, something that works fine with friendly-only spells like heals.
BC: The End of UI-Mods like Decursive - Arnulf - 10-18-2006
Quote:One feature of decurisive that i haven't seen mentioned yet is that it makes a great workaround to the horrible UI behavior of the priest's dispel magic spell. Since the spell can be used on both allies and enemies, it behaves in a very broken fashion, particularly if you want to dispel a friendly without dropping your current hostile target, something that works fine with friendly-only spells like heals.Horrible?
All I can see is that Decursive even more so relieves the user from making a decision. This works both ways, what if both allies and enemies have magic buffs/debuffs at the same time? How does Decursive decide which is more important?
No, the basic function is: Select target, and then dispell it. I cannot see anything at fault with this.