Quote:I used to work for a local University, and sat on a few hiring committees. We had to run all of our hiring decisions through the affirmative action office, but never had any problems, even when hiring a "majority" candidate. There were never any quotas that we had to fill.

Edited to add- I think one of the reasons that the system worked so well for us was that we had a pretty coherent system of screening applicants and interviewees agreed upon in advance, so it was pretty clear that our decisions were based on the merits of the candidate.

Quote:We have our share of ignorant, incompetent employees out here, too, but they tend to come in all colors. Are you sure you're not just noticing the ones that support your beliefs, and not the other ones who are equally incompent?

Quote:All retired, all talking out their ass.

Quote:"Rumsfeld already had the armed forces asking for his removal"

This one.

Mind you, I'm not a huge fan of the guy, but I've not seen any reports that the military wants him gone. A report from a 3rd source is not information to me. I need a direct result from either an unbiased poll (gl with that one, naturally), or a quote from several high ranking military officials before I believe this. Perhaps someone like Occhi can shed more light on this.

-A

Quote:All retired, all talking out their ass.

Quote:I do believe that's because they can't say a thing about their superior while in service.

Quote:I don't know much about affirmative action policies, but your post sure sounds racist regardless of intention. In my two years at a large (28,000+) university I have not run into anyone remotely like the person you described. Why choose the most improbable (and most derogatory) example?

Edit: Oops, sorry, I'm in school mode. Maybe the situation/person you described is more common in jobs than in schools. I've never experienced such a person myself.

Quote:C: "A civil union, partnership contract or other arrangement between persons of the same sex purporting to bestow the privileges or obligations of marriage is prohibited. Any such civil union, partnership contract or other arrangement entered into by persons of the same sex in another state or jurisdiction shall be void in all respects in Virginia and any contractual rights created thereby shall be void and unenforceable." Code of Virginia § 20-45.3, enacted 2004

Quote:Not that I've seen. Up here in the frigid north, there are very few white collar minorities (especially in technology). I interview and employ many, many people over a year period and I make the first cut based on what is on their resume. Those people that are qualified to make it to the interview stage usually are very knowledgeable and articulate.

I object a bit to affirmative action, or unions when they prevent people from making reasonable decisions about who should be given a job. I do believe it is important to insure minorities get a fair chance by giving people a means for filing a complaint that would be reviewed by an objective panel if they felt discriminated against. Philosophically, I'm not opposed to collective bargaining, or affirmative action, but in practice they have both been abused (by lawyers mostly). Fair employment needs to be a two way street for employees and employers.

I believe if there is a level playing field in educational opportunity, then the employment equality will sort itself out. A company would be crazy/stupid to pass over a better qualified candidate of color, for a less competent white person. Eventually, the company that discriminated would pay the price in poorer products, and also of having a poor reputation in fair hiring. It is only morally and ethically right to hold all people to the same standards, and to do otherwise is an affront to the persons who are held to the lower standard. I understand the argument is that as recompense for years of segregation and discrimination, minorities need preferential treatment to help close the gap. I think that preference would be better expressed as numerous scholarships for minorities that excel in high school and maintain a 3.0 or above in college (and not the watered down version of high school we have now). I believe in incentives, rather than handouts.

But, the civil rights movement was a long time ago. Would 100 years be enough time to sort things out? How about 200 years? It seems to me that the present time the largest obstacle for minority equality is a crappy high school education with lowered standards so much so that even if they graduated from high school they would never make it through college. And, it's not like the schools are discriminating. They are failing all children equally.

Quote:Waking reality is quite a bit different though.

Quote:I can respect a constituency's right to define marriage as the term has traditionally been used. However, this...

...I find problematic. Why the need for pre-emptive action? NO arrangement is valid? I really don't understand the harm - let the poor bastards have a tax break and power of attorney. There aren't any "institutions" being corrupted here, nor is it going to have any effect on "conventional" ideas of sexuality. Their way of life is already protected under the constitution, so admitting this right wouldn't be "groundbreaking" by any means. It has already been determined that homosexuals have a right to exist. Gay people are going to live together, and they're going to do "naughty things" regardless of whether their union is recognized by the state. In sum, this is purely vindictive, and smacks of state-sponsored bigotry. I can't think of any justifiable reason (both morally and in terms of jurisprudence) to deny them civil unions of some sort. Religion is NOT an issue - in acknowledging their sexual rights the state and supreme court have already as much as acknowledged their right to civil union. At least, this seems to me to be the logical extension of their freedom of sexual orientation, and rights to non-discrimination.

Quote:Multigenerational poverty is a tough thing to break out of, for kids of all races. If you don't know and don't interact with anyone who has ever been successful in school, you'll probably not enter Kindergarten expecting to succeed, much less high school. We can raise standards all we want, but until we address the problem of how to reach kids whom *nobody* expects to succeed, they'll fail to live up to any standards that we set for them.

Quote:The word still needs janitors. If their parents don't care about their future, why should I?

Occhi

Quote:Because they did not choose their circumstances. I think that every child should have an *opportunity* to succeed, regardless of who their parents are. Also, they won't all be janitors. Quite a few may not work legally for a living. Who will be supporting them then (through tax dollars or as crime victims)?

I've seen a study about Head Start, for example, where they followed some Head Start and non-Head Start children longitudinally, and it turned out that the money spent to send those kids to Head Start was more than repaid by increased tax revenues from these kids as adults.

The problem of multi-generational poverty also furthers racial tension in this country, because at this point a higher percentage of children of color are in families that have been in poverty for generations. As a result, this system perpetuates economic inequality between children of different racial groups.

It's not about race, it's about money and capitalism, but race ends up being a factor because although everyone *could* succeed, children of color, as a group, do not have the same opportunity to succeed.

Quote:Because they did not choose their circumstances. I think that every child should have an *opportunity* to succeed, regardless of who their parents are. Also, they won't all be janitors. Quite a few may not work legally for a living. Who will be supporting them then (through tax dollars or as crime victims)?

I've seen a study about Head Start, for example, where they followed some Head Start and non-Head Start children longitudinally, and it turned out that the money spent to send those kids to Head Start was more than repaid by increased tax revenues from these kids as adults.

The problem of multi-generational poverty also furthers racial tension in this country, because at this point a higher percentage of children of color are in families that have been in poverty for generations. As a result, this system perpetuates economic inequality between children of different racial groups.

It's not about race, it's about money and capitalism, but race ends up being a factor because although everyone *could* succeed, children of color, as a group, do not have the same opportunity to succeed.

Quote:Many factors at work here, but Affirmative Action is the leading contributor here in the South. That, and democrats, republicans, all these people with their own agendas, all of them conflicting.