Quote:I think you make a fair point Nystul, but I have to ask how much of the video did you watch? I only bring it up because this appears to be a case where the student's protest was becoming limp on the floor and refusing to get up. If he was restrained by cuffs, and walked out by two police officers there wouldn't be such a fiasco about the situation. Even if he decided to fight back violently against the police officers, they would have already restrained his hands with cuffs, and then there would be less of a fuss if the taser was used.

It's a misuse of power no matter how you slice it. The issue isn't just the taser, but the fact that it was used at least 5 times - and by the 4th you can hear the student saying "I can't get up" to their commands to stand up, leading to another tasering.

The issue is not just the fact that he was tasered, but how many times and under what continuing circumstances.

Cheers,

Munk

Quote:Eppie, you seem awfully quick to jump the gun and point fingers at the US. It's a big country, and the missteps of a few under trained individuals is not equivalent to the foreign political agenda. Do yourself a favor and separate the two.

Cheers,

Munk

Quote:The only thing at issue here is that the police officers should have known how to better handle the situation - including adapting their treatment of the non-compliant yet unaggressive student, especially in face of the crowd of people.

Quote:Question: Why do you "hate" police officers?

Quote:The second issue has nothing to do with profiling. It has to do with some maltrained police officers reacting poorly in the given situation. Even if you believe a taser was warranted in this situation, it's clear that 5-6 taser shots was excessive. There does not appear to be any racial profiling on the behalf of the police officers. They clearly speak their command, and repeat it over and over again. There is also due warning of the oncoming tasering if student does not comply to their commands. The only thing at issue here is that the police officers should have known how to better handle the situation - including adapting their treatment of the non-compliant yet unaggressive student, especially in face of the crowd of people.

Quote:While I don't exactly "love" police officers, your emotional statement is pretty absurd - just try imagining a lawless society without anyone around to [enforce] the law. Might as well move to Texas and carry a gun (occhi?). I've had several confrontations with police officers; what usually happens is they come up on me and try asserting their, for lack of a better word, energy [or force of personality?] over mine, but I don't allow this. They instantly reach for their gun and try standing OVER me, looking me down and I just coolly stare at them and never let their energy assert itself OVER mine, and it pisses them off - I don’t change my demeanor to anything offensive, I consciously keep my eyes and voice mellow so as not to provoke their attention, however I can “feel” their presence trying to overcome mine and I simply won’t allow it. I want equal respect from them, not to be treated like a suspect. This happens to me EVERY-TIME I encounter police officers close and personal so I know I'm not imagining this occurrence. I think the [real-issue] here however is not police officers themselves, but their training and their bosses.

Question: Why do you "hate" police officers? Have you ever asked yourself that? Keep in mind police officers are JUST AS CORRUPTABLE as the next man, so I don't trust them as far as I can spit, but I still have a healthy respect for their job, and I don't envy them. For someone whose job is to "serve and protect the public" when the majority of youth hates them, it's got to lead to some very intense conflicting emotions. No, I do not envy them, but I respect their job (not them directly - each individual needs to "earn" their own respect in my eyes, and no badge or crown automatically gives it too them). I think before you claim you “hate” cops, you should try imagining a world without them first. Just my 2-cents.

Quote:It seems like the kid wanted to make a spectacle of the situation. It's not the original rule that he broke, but the fact that that he refused to let the law enforcement finish their business. If a person had walked away from an undercover asking for ID at a bar/party, or driven away from a trooper asking for ID after pulling him over, he would have ended up on the ground in cuffs too. I don't know if the tasers were necessary, but they are probably considered more image-friendly in LA than billy clubs or a violent looking physical struggle...

Quote:Listen, I'm not saying he should not have been handcuffed and taken outside and I'm not saying he was right in refusing to show his ID. However, the methods used in...... ummmm.... restraining him?

I'm not a fan of lawsuites and I generally hate lawyers who practice this type of law... well, actually any law. Except my wife, of course :shuriken:

This incident deserves it.
-A

ps. I hate cops.

eppie Wrote:

1. I absolutely don't want to point fingers at the US, you understood me wrong. <>
   
2. I just wanted to point out why I am against excessive measures against people. <>
   
3. It is a fact that a big part of people with jobs that gives them this kind of simple power over others are not capable of handling the job.<>
   
4. Not US you see...everywhere this happens. <>
   
5. If in Holland police continues to hassle small Marocan boys for all kinds of small things. <>
   
6. like just hanging around or so, these kids grow up with a strong hatred against 'the system'' the only things this yields is more, and more violent teenagers. <>
   
7. If you want to act tough on crime, fine, but be sure to be tough on the right persons on the right time. You make mistakes? You will get them back at you for sure.<>
   
8. Soldiers just like policemen are usually not masters of philosophy or PhDs in social sciences, and I have absolutely no problems with that. The people in charge though have to realize this.<>
   
9. In Holland we had much problems lately with marines and navy soldiers misbehaving (rapes of female colleagues, fighting in bars with local people <>
   
10. As long as we don't realize that e.g. soldiers and police officers are not angels not capable of doing wrong we get a lot of problems. <>
    
11. Of course we usually talk about individuals but it is the responsibility of the people in charge that these things don't happen....it will hurt the (in this case) policeforce too much<>
    [st]

Quote:From eppie:
Who is this "we?"
Then how about the taxpayers in all civilized nations pay more tax so that these "people in charge" can get the funding approved for the mind control kits that will solve this problem? :rolleyes:

Occhi

WTF with the tags today?

Quote: I don't think it has any sense for me to react any further on this.

Quote:

eppie(AC) Wrote:It is a fact that a big part of people with jobs that gives them this kind of simple power over others are not capable of handling the job.

Occhi(OS) responds:
What data, what evidence, supports this assertion? I s this more eppie is "platitude man?" (Please prove me wrong with real data.) You seem to confuse "most" with "some" and "a few."

Quote:From eppie:
Your post history argues against that disclaimer.
Define "excessive." I am against child abuse, against torture, and against abuse of citizens. Those are pretty easy positions to take. No risk there.



What data, what evidence, supports this assertion? Is this more eppie is "platitude man?" (Please prove me wrong with real data.) You seem to confuse "most" with "some" and "a few."



Thanks for your "non anti-US" attempt at moral equivalence between US cops, and cops in Turkey, and cops in Saudi Arabia. Really, thanks. :P



:P I'd say they were doing their jobs. :rolleyes: Get those punks off the street. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Yes, indeed, it is the cops' fault those kids are feckless bums. "The man been effin with me" is spoken in Arabic how?
Of course a mistake is made here and there, which is why in the US (and in most civilized nations) their are a few safeguards. Internal Affairs divisions in police departments, courts, lawyers, and the press.



No crap?
Sailors and marines have been doing that since their professions were invented. What has happened is that Holland's sensibilities are now overpussified, as are some American sensibilities.



Who is this "we?"
Then how about the taxpayers in all civilized nations pay more tax so that these "people in charge" can get the funding approved for the mind control kits that will solve this problem? :rolleyes:

Occhi

WTF with the tags today?

Quote:Ahh, you suck. Fix that post, dammit! My head hurts.

-A

Quote:Ahh, you suck. Fix that post, dammit! My head hurts.

-A

Quote:The UCLA police department identified the officer caught electrifying the student who did not produce his college ID card as Terrence Duren, an 18-year veteran of the UCPD.

Duren hasn't had the smoothest career in law enforcement. He came to Westwood after being fired from the infamous Long Beach PD. A few years after being hired by UCLA he was accused of using his nightstick to choke a fratboy and the university asked the UCPD to fire Duren, but he was only given a three month suspension.

In late 2003 Duren shot a homeless man, Willie Davis Frazier, Jr., in a Kerckhoff Hall bathroom. Frazier, who attempted at first to shun lawyers and represent himself, was imbalanced enough to spend time in a mental institution as the court tried to figure out if he was fit to stand trial.

During a 2004 preliminary hearing in which Duren testified against Frazier, the officer carried a Machiavelli book into court, "The Prince", which argues that the ends justifies the means. "Did you know that this was Tupac's favorite book?" he asked.

Less than a year after Duren shot Frazier, UCLA decided to invest $22,000 in tasers, according to the Daily Bruin.

And now, ironically it's Duren who is being accused of abusing the taser.

"If someone is resisting, sometimes it's not going to look pretty taking someone into custody," he told the LA Times today. "If you have to use some force, it's not going to look pretty. That's the nature of this job."

Quote:http://www.laist.com/archives/2006/11/20/t...ers_at_ucla.php

Link to a bit of new info. on the case. Turns out that the "tasing" cop was a little less than clean.

I'm not sure what we're supposed to make of the Machiavelli quote. There are two possible readings of that one - one of which is fairly racist (whereas the other is just a defense of vigilantism...). Nonetheless:

Quote:I'm not sure what we're supposed to make of the Machiavelli quote. There are two possible readings of that one - one of which is fairly racist (whereas the other is just a defense of vigilantism...).

Quote:http://www.laist.com/archives/2006/11/20/t...ers_at_ucla.php

Link to a bit of new info. on the case. Turns out that the "tasing" cop was a little less than clean.

Quote:Machiavelli quote as "racist?" *puzzled look*

Could you elaborate on that?

Occhi

Quote:hellow to all of you..