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RE: LOST - --Pete - 05-31-2010
Hi,
(05-31-2010, 10:37 PM)MEAT Wrote: 1) As I stated before, Jack had to interact with these people for them to be in his vision. Assuming they (the people Jack saw in his visions) were all passengers on the plane, it can be surmised that some time had to of been spent on the island with these people for Jack to experience the things he did in his visions.
If the whole series was Jack's death vision then we don't know if those people were based on passengers on the plane, people Jack had interacted with, possibly briefly, in life, or even completely imaginary composites. It could just as easily be that Jack is the only 'real' character and everything else a figment of his imagination.
Quote:1b) While all the passengers were interwoven somehow with each other, not all of them met before face to face until the plane crash.
They all exist only in Jack's head.
Quote:1c) If you are in the "I assume Jack made up all these people in his vision" camp, then there is no way to prove who was actually a passenger on the plane or not, thus this whole conversation is a mute point.
When the writers resorted to the 'it was all a vision' gambit, they opened the door to "which 'all' was only a vision?" Their failure to resolve almost all the issues they brought up is more indicative of a stream of consciousness vision than of a 'real' story. Or, perhaps, it is indicative of their incompetence and stupidity.
And, please, quit using 'mute' when you mean 'moot'. Mute means unable to speak. Moot means academic.
Quote:2) Based on the prior assumption that they indeed survived the crash-landing, well the Smoke-Monster was in the Pilot episode, as were the polar bears, so obviously the Island has some mysteries on it before the death of Jack, giving some credence to the idea that Jack died after the discovery of the smoke-monsters origins.
Or it was all in Jack's head, and the Smoke Monster was nothing more than some ethanol impacting some neurons.
Quote:2b) I'd say at the very earliest, Jack might have died when he and the other Oceaniac-6 made it back to the main-land. He might have overdosed on painkillers then. Besides, the whole time-travel stuff seemed a bit far-fetched.
The whole point of the series was far-fetched stuff, mysteries, clues and hints. Take that out, and all you've got left is the interpersonal stuff. Interesting in itself, but it could have been done in General Hospital.
Quote:3) Most of the rest of my musings were made on the last episode, with what Hurley said to Ben about him being a great #2 implying a long time spent overseeing the island, and about what Christian Sheppard said to Jack about the time on the island being the most important time of Jack's life. I wish I had time to go into more detail at the moment, but duty beckons. I will have to finish this sometime later.
OK.
--Pete
RE: Just My Stupid Take - NuurAbSaal - 05-31-2010
(05-31-2010, 10:54 PM)--Pete Wrote: Yes, they resolved everything. Simply by saying, in effect, there was nothing to resolve. It is a cheap trick, it is an irritating trick, it is the mark of an incompetent writer. And it is not, to me at least, acceptable.
--Pete
So, having browsed a bit through this thread, should I watch the 5 seasons of Lost I have on loan from a friend? Can the show be enjoyed knowing that there won't be a season/episode that clears it all up? I have only seen a few minutes of various episodes from different seasons (needless to say, I didn't get any of it
), and it seemed intriguing. Anything there if you skip the last season?take care
Tarabulus
P.S.: Saw Pete's last reply now, I guess I'll give the series a pass.
Quote:The whole point of the series was far-fetched stuff, mysteries, clues and hints. Take that out, and all you've got left is the interpersonal stuff. Interesting in itself, but it could have been done in General Hospital.
RE: Just My Stupid Take - --Pete - 05-31-2010
Hi,
(05-31-2010, 11:23 PM)NuurAbSaal Wrote: So, having browsed a bit through this thread, should I watch the 5 seasons of Lost I have on loan from a friend? Can the show be enjoyed knowing that there won't be a season/episode that clears it all up? I have only seen a few minutes of various episodes from different seasons (needless to say, I didn't get any of it
When Sue and I were watching the first five seasons on NetFlix, we'd often watch four or five episodes a night. The show is excellent, the story fascinating. If you can be happy watching an incomplete work, knowing it will never be completed, go for it. Even season six has a few good moments in it, and some questions are resolved (often by bringing up another question).
--Pete
RE: LOST - Sabra - 05-31-2010
I'm with Pete! It's just great to be able to watch it in large chunks. You won't regret it. I'm just sorry if you saw a lot of spoilers.
RE: Just My Stupid Take - Sabra - 05-31-2010
Pete, I think that your choice of the word disrespected is entirely appropriate. LOST asked us to hang in there and then threw in the towel.
When the episode aired about how Richard Alpert got to the island, I was hopeful, but shortly thereafter, I came upon a list of unresolved questions in LOST. Then the episode with Allison Janney (a favorite actress of mine) aired and I knew that my hopes were ill-founded, so I settled for the "C" word.
I settled though. Make no mistake. Is it fortunate to know when you're licked?
When Sue told me yesterday that you two hadn't watched the finale, I thought to myself "Incoming BAH HUMBUG." I do believe that LOST's viewers deserved a better shake than we got.
blah, blah, blah, and the wisdom to know the difference. :) - --Pete - 06-01-2010
Hi,
(05-31-2010, 11:54 PM)Sabra Wrote: I settled though. Make no mistake. Is it fortunate to know when you're licked?
I have to take it, I don't have to like it.
BTW, I've been remiss. Hugs.
--Pete
RE: blah, blah, blah, and the wisdom to know the difference. :) - Sabra - 06-01-2010
(06-01-2010, 12:15 AM)--Pete Wrote: Hi,
BTW, I've been remiss. Hugs.
--Pete
Back attcha, Pete! And to your wonderful Frau as well. You two are a complete joy!
What do you wish had happened? - Taem - 06-01-2010
Well I think it's pretty clear that the majority of people (here anyways) do not like the ending given in LOST. If you could change the way the story ended, or even all of the last season, how would you have made it end?
If I may,
I liked the way that season six was going. What I REALLY wanted to happen in the end was for the "flash-sideways" to be an alternate time-line formed when the hydrogen bomb went off, and somehow Desmond's ability to interact with electromagnetism in ways we can't understand be a bridge between the two realities. In the original reality, I wanted the island to die when the cork was removed, and wished that everyone died - yes every single survivor of the Oceanic flight. Then, somehow in the flash-forwards, Desmond finds a way for those who "want" to go back to the island, to find a way back there so they may enjoy the rest of their lives living there in well-deserved peace till the day they die. That would have been quite the ending, and one I think that most LOST fans desired or at least expected.
I wish they'd stopped after season 5 ;) - --Pete - 06-01-2010
Hi,
(06-01-2010, 04:47 AM)MEAT Wrote: That would have been quite the ending, and one I think that most LOST fans desired or at least expected.
I think most Lost fans wanted at least a few of the outstanding questions answered. If you're wondering which questions, then the laundry list in the video linked to by Sabra is a good start. I'd scrap all the sideways crap of the last season. I'd get all the writers, producers, directors, actors, key grips, and best boys, and anyone else who ever got within five miles of the shooting together with a few dozen of the best posters on the fan sites. I'd lock them in a high school gym with flat beer and stale pizza until they hammered out a coherent back story for the island and what had happened through season 5. Then, on the basis of that story, I'd have them work out an interesting and plausible ending for the story.
For season six, I'd use flashbacks, memories, talks, arguments, whatever, to reveal the back story, intertwining it with the events that would lead to the grand final. Some of the crap they pulled in earlier seasons might have to be glossed over. Some of the mysteries would have to be left unexplained. But, by damn, I would not have abandoned everything the show had done, let down the fans, and used that over boiled bunch of tripe of as a final episode.
Perhaps, one day, someone who cares and who actually has a brain will redo the final season. But I doubt it. For one thing, just getting that cast back together would be nearly impossible. And after that last season, no one would fund it anyway.
--Pete
RE: Realistic and reality are not the same thing. - eppie - 06-01-2010
(05-31-2010, 04:44 PM)--Pete Wrote: The universe of the story doesn't have to be consistent with our rules, but it must be consistent with its own.
So, the problem isn't that the universe of the matrix doesn't agree with ours. It's that it doesn't agree with itself.
--Pete
Of course but most of the time stories are inconsistent. Especially to make 'the final scene' original film makers come up with a ' oh yeah and the main character has that ability' kind of moment.
About Lost: that smoke monster somehow didn't really fit in.
the first series where exciting enouigh without it....the Polar bears and the others were mistery enough.
RE: Realistic and reality are not the same thing. - --Pete - 06-01-2010
Hi,
(06-01-2010, 08:03 AM)eppie Wrote: Of course but most of the time stories are inconsistent. Especially to make 'the final scene' original film makers come up with a ' oh yeah and the main character has that ability' kind of moment.
That is true, but it is not good. That they do it shows lack of ability or of interest on their part. That the viewing audience and critics allow them to get away with it shows the lack of critical judgment resulting from a poor education.
Quote:About Lost: that smoke monster somehow didn't really fit in.
the first series where exciting enough without it....the Polar bears and the others were mistery enough.
You've just damaged your Lost cred
I believe it was the smoke monster who killed the pilot of the Oceanic flight. Although, apparently, neither the details not the effects had been worked out completely that early.As to 'fitting in', that's up to the writers. It is their job to build an imaginary reality where the devices they use fit in. Failure to do so is just crappy writing.
--Pete