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+--- Thread: Dupes Dupes (/thread-11922.html)
Dupes Dupes - AtomicKitKat - 03-07-2003
That's bull. Ban the re-selling of anything DIRECTLY CONNECTED to the game itself. That includes, items, CDs, CD-keys, characters, accounts, etc, but excludes: T-shirts, books, any other crap that can fit a Blizzard logo(and this practice of merchandising EVERYTHING came about after Star Wars...)
IF you want to, you can always give Blizzard your CD and ask for a new key. But if you do this AFTER the banning starts(hypothetical), you will automatically be sued for breaching a contract. :D
Dupes Dupes - TheVillageIdiot - 03-07-2003
CrescentWindX: Well Blizzard is kind of willing to help us d2 players out with a new patch that should stall hackers for awhile. A new patch, thats doing something I guess. Although it'd be much more effective to have constant monitoring on Bnet rather than a new patch.
Been seeing places to download the Beta with cdkey -.-; .
Dupes Dupes - CrescentWindX - 03-07-2003
VillageIdiot: Touche, although I'm still not holding my breath to see if 1.10 is going to do anything major against hacks, dupes, bots, etc.
The ladder will be "clean" for two weeks at best, IMO.
Dupes Dupes - Mikedok - 03-07-2003
Quote:Dupers and hackers usually have multiple cd-keys and may even have the CD's themselves. When they get a cdkey banned, they just discard it
I realize that hackers can make enough money for it to be worth while for them to buy extra copies of the game. Part of my suggestion is to ban users of hacked items, not just the makers. If a user pays $50 for the game and $50 for the hacked item and then loses the game and the item, do you think they will shell out $100 to try again? Remember I'm not talking about the person making the hacks, I'm talking about the person using them. Even if they only catch 5% of the users, word will spread quickly that people who are using hacks are getting banned. I think it would scare a lot of people into not using them. I'm sure not everyone, but a lot. If you make it not worth the time/money to use hacks, it becomes not worth the time to develop them.
Quote:Now how fair is that when a person buys a copy of d2 online and can't play on B.net? Banning cd keys is a ridicilous idea that only hurts consumers in the long run.
This sounds like it is really an ebay issue. The buyer did not get what they paid for and should return the item. If the seller won't except it, take the usual steps versus bad sellers. Maybe, if Blizzard wants to be nice, they could post a list of banned CD keys on it's web site. You could ask the seller for the CD key and check it on the list. Obviously, sellers could lie about the CD key, but that again is an ebay problem solved like other ebay problems. Personally, I use credit cards via paypal to pay for ebay auctions. If I call the credit card company they will refund my money and dispute the charge in their own way.
I still think this is a very simple step that Blizzard could take to reduce the use of hacked items. Any more thoughts?
Dupes Dupes - CrescentWindX - 03-07-2003
I'd just like to see them stop all eBay sales for items all together. I know other companies have done it in the past (for MMORPG's like EQ and DaoC). At first I thought Blizzard was just ignorant of the item sales on eBay. But after they stopped WC3X Beta CD-Keys and not DII items, well...that sorta ruins my theory :(
Dupes Dupes - Conner Macleod - 03-07-2003
Blizz knows the place and location of everything illegit concerning Diablo 2. They do go after them, but this has more to do with the webhosts cooperating with the legal department at Blizz. They shut em down, they crop up someplace else.
Ever read the back of the box of a Battle Chest bundled Diablo set? I bought a Battle Chest set about 6 months ago when a friend/cousin became interested and wanted to play with me on my T1 connection - we were both surprised at what we read.
Over 7 million copies of the game have sold. At the price most of us paid for the game ($49.95) that would equate to roughly $350,000,000 in sales volume for the entire game. That's a lot of money. Let's assume that of that amount, 40% made it back to Blizz for about $150,000,000 in revenue (gaming is big bucks).
I remember buying verision 1.01 when it first hit the shelves (and I could swear this game is older than 3 years, but it isn't) about 3 years ago. That's a very long time for any video game to have a following.
At any given time, about 100,000+ people are on Closed Battle.net playing Diablo 2. So, there is still an interest by 1.43% of the game's original purchasers in playing the game the way it was meant to be played. The people aren't playing much anymore, they aren't selling a ton of new games everyday, so what do you do? By all means necessary, you promote an interest in a new revenue producer. Ever notice what advertisements we see when online? Battle.net is free because it is Blizzard's own advertising medium.
The Plan: Make us sick of the game's problems (Diablo 1), promote a bigger and better game that is supposed to be hack free (Diablo 2), and then when interest feigns in that game, promote a bigger game (The WarCraft Series). I'm going to go over something I read once (can't remember where), that talked about WHY people want hacks in their video gaming experience - I read this online from some general gaming site.
Hacks and Iths, although I am staunchly against them in Closed games, keep an interest in the game. I would dare say that a majority of players on Battle.net have an interest in using them or working to obtain them (Why I will never know, Open Bnet offers WAY better cheats). They provide a way to play the game in a new way so that it never gets old. We have Mod Makers out there making new maps and weapons for Open play, these people are merely interested in a new way to play the game in a cheated way on Closed.
In the case of Diablo 2, there is a sense of "getting away with something" by using Iths. Further, it feeds the ego of the user because in this Alternate Reality, they can be the best at something. In real life, they probably don't have the "best" friends, are shunned by the opposite sex, are younger (teens), and aren't very sociable (case in point: any conversation in any game). There is also a sense that they are pushing the game to it's limits because they have also grown bored with legitimate play.
One game series that I truly enjoy is the Age of Empires/Empire Earth series. I enjoyed playing it legitly against people online for a very long time. But more fun, because you were essentially playing the role of God, was to use the cheats placed in the game by the game maker. It kept my interest, but I don't play the game like I used to play it anymore. It's not that much fun when everyone has 5,000 catapults and soldiers within 5 minutes of play.
But I digress, the ONE thing that truly pisses Blizzard off is when their servers are tied down from hack methods, bots, and duping methods. When their server is down, it makes them look bad. Since Ith's are no longer capable of being created, that is not their big priority anymore. I would dare say that in their eyes, it's fine that you are using a cheated weapon, but if you try to duplicate that weapon and it causes their server to go into a frenzy, then you are intruding on them.
They recently put out a warning about equipping your character with cheats. The only legit way to determine who is using them is to sit in the Trade Channel and hit the print screen button every five seconds and then send that to Blizz. If we all did that, then we will never see the One Ten Patch come out should they decide to follow up on these goofballs.
But most distressing to me was the rampant dupe wave. I buy alot of things I need for cubing and crafting with SOJs. I was cubing a bunch of charms and building goldfind characters at the time this happened. Last night I had to fork out 1 soj per Lem rune, and people don't want SOJs for their 40 pgems anymore. Now that sucks because it takes away from my personal gaming experience. Maybe in a couple months I can get back to it (because we all know that 1.10 will be out in a few months). :(
Dupes Dupes - Taem - 03-07-2003
Quote:I'm not talking about the person making the hacks, I'm talking about the person using them
Thats actually the best idea i've heard yet. Blizzard can post a warning about three weeks in advance to tell everyone that if you possess bugged items, iths, whites, etc.. your account will be deleated and your cd-key banned. They then would have to close the realms for a massive scan. This would effectivly and completly eraticate all of the illegal items except for dupes. Instead of banning accounts and cd-keys for the poor saps that are unaware they are possessing a dupe, instead simply deleate all dupes. Whola, problem solved. After this point, every once in awhile Blizzard should do a non-announced scan for bugged, dupes, iths and then ban account and cd-keys for people who possess these items.
Thats a fantastic idea! Lets just cross our fingers...
I also never knew the Star Wars merchandising idea. Yes, I think that would also work for Diablo 2, however I was unaware you could get another cd-key for 10 dollars from blizzard. I still feel its unfair for the person who buys a copy of diablo 2 off ebay for a "cheap" price, then finds out he needs a new cd-key is pretty unfair because he'll most likely end up spending more money than just going to the store and buying the game.
Dupes Dupes - Davethecoolguy - 03-08-2003
Quote:Thats actually the best idea i've heard yet. Blizzard can post a warning about three weeks in advance to tell everyone that if you possess bugged items, iths, whites, etc.. your account will be deleated and your cd-key banned. They then would have to close the realms for a massive scan. This would effectivly and completly eraticate all of the illegal items except for dupes. Instead of banning accounts and cd-keys for the poor saps that are unaware they are possessing a dupe, instead simply deleate all dupes. Whola, problem solved.
see the problem with this idea is that alot of players do not realize that they are getting duped items. haha I know it may seem crazy but alot of people feel they are getting genuine legit found items.
Dupes Dupes - the Langolier - 03-09-2003
MEAT,Mar 7 2003, 12:00 PM Wrote:Thats actually the best idea i've heard yet. Blizzard can post a warning about three weeks in advance to tell everyone that if you possess bugged items, iths, whites, etc.. your account will be deleated and your cd-key banned. They then would have to close the realms for a massive scan. This would effectivly and completly eraticate all of the illegal items except for dupes. Instead of banning accounts and cd-keys for the poor saps that are unaware they are possessing a dupe, instead simply deleate all dupes. Whola, problem solved. After this point, every once in awhile Blizzard should do a non-announced scan for bugged, dupes, iths and then ban account and cd-keys for people who possess these items.You are also forgetting one big thing. Money. To do something that big it would cost them a huge amount of money. Each individual account and character would have to be scanned for cheats. Rest assured that some cheats would be overlooked, and even some completely legit characters would get mangaled. And how many people on the realms who play legit have actually used duped items like SOJ's to trade for other things they need, like items for cubing. Despite what was said earlier, $150 million revenue is not that much money. The shear amount of work and money that would be needed to do this is no where near the worth the realms would get out of it. Honestly, if hacks made it on the closed realms to begin with, they will make their way there again.
Thats a fantastic idea! Lets just cross our fingers...
I also never knew the Star Wars merchandising idea. Yes, I think that would also work for Diablo 2, however I was unaware you could get another cd-key for 10 dollars from blizzard. I still feel its unfair for the person who buys a copy of diablo 2 off ebay for a "cheap" price, then finds out he needs a new cd-key is pretty unfair because he'll most likely end up spending more money than just going to the store and buying the game.
Dupes Dupes - Mikedok - 03-09-2003
I think you are misunderstanding my post.
One person at Blizzard spending time listening to the trade channels and trying to set up sting operations would not cost very much. Heck, I'm sure some people would volunteer for this job.
Only target hacked items with these methods. Since hacked items can not be legit, only non-legit players would be banned. Different methods would need to be found to deal with dupped items.
The purpose of these methods is not to scan every account. The purpose is to get a small percent of people with hacks. Even if only 5% of people with hacked items were banned, I think that most other people would be scared to use hacks. Sure this will not stop everyone, but it will stop a lot more then the current methods that Blizzard uses (none?).
I posted this idea as an example of a cheap, easy way that Blizzard could at least do something. I realize that it wouldn't be 100% effective, but even if it was 50% effective I think it would be worth while.
Dupes Dupes - alvinjourneyman - 03-09-2003
This is why I just play single player Eastern Sun, or 7L.
Dupes Dupes - Conner Macleod - 03-10-2003
Well, it would be big money to Blizz, the parent company isn't doing too well. They have bigger fish to fry like releasing new games. Placing much needed manpower to maintain the integrity of a past release is just not good business. This is coming from a small business owner. I know that in my company, I squeeze every bit of manpower out of my people to look towards future revenue producing methods and machines. Blizz probably has the same type of brass in charge who cannot see expending valuable resources on something that is not producing revenue at present. Onward and Upward, a favorite management saying of mine.
Managerial practices would tell you that they definitely should NOT put someone in charge of doing what has been talked about. For most people working at Blizzard (and most companies), 95% of the people working there do not care could care about anything except that their paycheck is issued on Friday and that it actually cashes at the bank. They aren't in love with the game like we are (some maybe), and to them, it's a job, and volunteering would be beyond them. I would dare say that the programmers on the staff care about one thing - working code that is free from bugs and will make them look good for possible recruitment to future projects. If you were force fed Diablo 2 for a year or two, and it was your job, you would care about your mortgage payments more than what some kid thinks of a ruined Diablo economy. Sure, it's an embarassment to them that their code is leaky, but not a priority.
But from a gamer's perspective, I would appreciate their acknowledgment that they have a problem, and I would like to see some type of action. I have not seen either out of them except for some random posts by Blizz reps, but nothing official has been said.
Deletion? Well, 1.10 will make these hacks go through what we call Extinction. Realistically, this is true, and management knows this to be true, so why waste any more money than is necessary? They know a new economy is about to emerge, and it's one where all of us start at square 1. And once it's released, we'll all forget about the fact that Blizz let us down. They are fixing it, but in the form of a new patch.
But at present, I'm exceptionally bored because I enjoy my cubing. But does anyone disagree with me that once 1.10 comes out we will all start to label softcores as hack users and laddercores as the true players? Ahhh, no more "I cAn PwN U n()()B!" in games for at least a month or two.
Dupes Dupes - Davethecoolguy - 03-13-2003
Quote:Ahhh, no more "I cAn PwN U n()()B!" in games for at least a month or two.
and thats why I can't wait for 1.10
haha I can see it now. *drools*
but alas methinks the hacks will be into the ladder game waaay before a month. But a week might be nice!
Dupes Dupes - Conner Macleod - 03-15-2003
Well, according to reports I've read and heard of, they aren't making hacked items anymore because of past patches. Supposedly you can't make an Ith item anymore, but I know the private dupers out there are waiting to dupe the first WF that drops in the ladder.
I personally have faith in Blizz on this and the morons out there will be left behind and won't play ladder. After all, that would require that they play the game straight through! Norm to Hell! My gosh! What do we do with this Horadric Scroll? Does anyone have NM Durance WP? I can't lay down these monsters in one shot! I'm losing my mind without my Ith Hammer (or whatever the heck they use)! You mean play something besides Cows?
It'll be a clean best-only playground for a while. All under 17 year olds (who shouldn't be playing an MA title anyhow) need not apply.
Dupes Dupes - BlackLightning - 03-20-2003
Man, I get why you guys are so furious about hacks and stuff. My friend used to play on Bnet legitimately, and his accounts have been hacked like 5 TIMES!
Anyway, I guess the people at Blizzard have been slacking. My friend is now duping like crazy, and now, he has truly defined *moron* for me. lol
One of my other friends loves to play with hacks, but started out nice and clean. That's the main thing i loathe about hacks - They spread like wildfire. One day, your friend is playing good and pure, the next he's hacking like he's high or somethin'! :angry:
I guess hacks will always exist (disheartening i know). But there's always a way around everything. :D
Dupes Dupes - Conner Macleod - 03-28-2003
Not that they will always exist, it's just the mark of a gamer who cannot game! The challenge to me in Diablo 2 has always been to be the best in the legit world. It takes time to get to the best, and I'm not there at all yet. But building a character around a cheated item is just the stupidest and dumbest thing I've ever heard of. I mean, get a girlfriend or something.
Dupes Dupes - the Langolier - 03-28-2003
$pringh33led_J@<k:
>My friend used to play on Bnet legitimately, and his accounts have been hacked like 5 TIMES!
What exactly do you mean by "hacked"? Stolen?
>Anyway, I guess the people at Blizzard have been slacking. My friend is now duping like crazy, and now, he has truly defined *moron* for me.
Exactly what does Blizzard have to do with your friend deciding he will dupe? Perhaps because they haven't ensured it is impossible to dupe items to stop your friend from doing it? I don't think so.
>One of my other friends loves to play with hacks, but started out nice and clean. That's the main thing i loathe about hacks - They spread like wildfire. One day, your friend is playing good and pure, the next he's hacking like he's high or somethin'!
"Hacking" is not like catching a cold. Either you do it, or you don't. If you resort to cheating, then you never really started good or pure - you just started not knowing how to cheat.
P.S. Your name hurts my eyes.
On to Connor:
>The challenge to me in Diablo 2 has always been to be the best in the legit world.
Wow. Quite a goal. Exactly how do you define "the best"? You would have to create the best character for each class. Is it defined around items? That seems silly considering it only takes time to find the best gear - no skill or strategy involved. Would you think strategy defines the best? In that case, naked characters would be the best, they have the hardest time. I think most here would agree that there is no "best" and play only depends on playing style. What is the difference between a decked out sorceress in <insert your dream equipment here> from a naked sorceress if both can hold their own in act 5/hell?
>I mean, get a girlfriend or something.
Ok... I mean, What?
Dupes Dupes - Jarulf - 03-28-2003
CrescentWindX,Mar 7 2003, 09:08 AM Wrote:Oh, did anyone else notice this? Blizzard banned the selling of Warcraft III Expansion Beta CDKey's on eBay, and not Diablo II items. Funny, seeing as how both are against the ToS.Ehh, someone selling the cd-key most likely would just NOT agree to anything like a ToS. I suspect there would be other reasons for it to be possible though.
Dupes Dupes - Conner Macleod - 03-29-2003
Hang on Langolier, don't quote me partially. I was talking about building a character for a hacked item. Read the entire statement.
I was saying, if you cannot play legit, go get a life. Hence, the girlfriend statement. That's what I was saying. If we quote like that we can make anyone say anything they weren't saying.
Dupes Dupes - jahcs - 03-29-2003
I know this may be a little off topic but it might relate.
To me legit is no dupes, no hacks, no rush.
Blizz says 1.10 will do something about Cowing for XP (nerf the level?).
That will probably shif the XP runs back to bosses and level clears. Which means you can get a few rushers to tag along to help Mlevel and XP. And if you're doing boss runs you might as well MF.
I see 2 things happening on the ladder:
With all the people "waiting for the patch so they start playing again" Bnet will bog down and lag out so nothing can happen.
OR
Within a couple weeks there will be plenty of people accepting rushes and generating material for the dupers.
As soon as 1.10 is released the people who write the hacks will go to work trying to see what new controls Blizzard put on the game code and what they can do to get around it. Most of them probably do it for the challenge or the money.