Quote:Cap is 85, so it would be 88, 89, 90 by that idea. The problem is, without using zone wide buffs/debuffs, the amount of hit you need is going to be exponential. It doesn't go from 8-9-10% for each level.

Quote:though the details -- such as how much Hit Rating you might need to effectively combat high-level creatures (...) -- are likely to change.

Quote:The most interesting thing, I think, will be how Blizzard balances PvP around this. The way it seems things are currently balanced is that ranged attackers have less health but they can start attacking earlier (plus they have snares and such though melee have snare breakers, for the most part). Does this mean ranged DPS classes are going to have to deal less damage to make up for them being able to get the jump on melee combatants? Similarly, they are boosting the armor on cloth and such, so it sounds like cloth casters are going to get a double bump in survivability, so how is that going to play out?

Quote:But it might:

For what it's worth, I don't know what causes you to do it, but I *love* the crocodile tears everytime they talk about changing something that affects your noobadin.

~Frag:wub:

Quote:....

Quote:Yes, I have been irritated by many of the changes that they have made to paladins, and they have turned out 'ok'

Quote:Which is why I find your reactions when we don't have all the info so crocodiley.

Cheers,
~Frag B)

Quote:I think lots of people are confusing 'challenge' with 'tedium'.

Quote:The things you're not excited about are the things I'm excited about. Defense has been a red herring for a long time now and part of the overall 'anti-upgrade' situation that has existed. Oh, that would be an upgrade but there's less defense on it! more hit on it! not enough expertise on it! I'll take it for when I can make it work... It's not really 'fun' per se, and makes for some very counterintuitive gear selections.

Quote: Parry is now useful for mitigation purposes and not just another avoidance stat that's the crappy step-son of Dodge.

Quote: Block is being moved to something that's viable to search out and use instead of a waste of itemization (even 102.5% shield tanks don't use block exactly, they use Defense). Your complaints about Block % being only on tier gear is a little flat given how few off-set pieces have it at the moment, and I doubt you'll see that trend change. I'll take the charge of being overly optimistic about this, but perhaps.. perhaps we'll be able to build a tank they way we want now and all be reasonably effective. That's a big hope, and if any other MMO I've played is an indication, it won't work. Just saying it would be nice if a Parry Tank, a Block Tank and a Dodge Tank could all be viable and better at certain encounter styles.

Quote:On the armor issue, you're again looking at the worst possible outcome and not what was said. They said they'd narrow the gap, not that everyone would be at the same amount, or even close amounts. Currently the amount of armor difference between even Mail and Plate is nothing short of gigantic, while cloth might as well not have armor on it. Flattening the bell curve will mostly benefit PvP, but also should help out Klaus when he pulls aggro too.;)

Quote:Which is why I find your reactions when we don't have all the info so crocodiley.

Quote:Agreed. I called this 'pre-whining' some time ago for a reason. Why make sweeping conclusions that the sky is falling when you only have a peek at the tip of the iceberg?

Quote:I'm interested in the changes, too. Getting away from 2 and 3-shot tanking except as a special fight element (ala Festergut) makes me a happy tank. Getting away from spamspamspam or the tank dies makes me a happy healer. Having to think a little makes me happier.

Quote:I also agree on the defense and other changes. I think lots of people are confusing 'challenge' with 'tedium'. Blizzard's trying to remove some tedium from the process, imo. For them as well as us.

Quote:Also, while we're talking about changes, the QQ is huge about the 5% health/damage/healing buff starting in Icecrown this week. I submit that it's just another way of doing what they've always done: nerfing instances after the bleeding-edge clears them. However, the players can't take nerfs back, but, you can shut off the buff with the faction leader if you want to do the encounter 'pre-nerf', or you can accept that your group needs a little help to finish seeing the content. Choices are good.

Quote:I just don't see a parry or block tank holding up to a dodge tank. Again, I will concede the point if I'm wrong.

Quote:As for the thread, you certainly bring some good points up and it'll be a loss to have you withdraw, all I believe we're asking is to keep the doom song in our heads.:D

Cheers,
~Frag B)

Quote:(assuming they do what they're supposed to do for bears)

Quote:I've seen a post or two implying that bears will not receive block or parry ability, and in fact may go back to being the top HP/armor tanks. I am hoping that they'll at least make parry rating/block rating on misc slots useful to us in some way. WTB talent "Your armor is increased by XXX% of your block rating + parry rating"

Quote:I guess. It is guaranteed to mitigate 50% of a single hit, and as long as I don't dodge the next hit, 50% off of that one. In ICC settings, this works.
I agree, Block is being made into something worthwhile. There are 42 non tier/shield items that have block rating / value on them. I'm not sure of the percentage over all that is, but I will concede that it is probably a small number.

I just don't see a parry or block tank holding up to a dodge tank. Again, I will concede the point if I'm wrong.

Quote:(assuming they do what they're supposed to do for bears)

Quote:If druids have lower avoidance (assuming you call the new parry and block avoidance), then they'll have higher armor and health to compensate. There is no reason druids must have block and parry to be competitive. They really haven't missed it much in WotLK.

Quote:I actually took the comment about "steeper ratings" to mean that they wanted it to be really hard to reach hitcap (for example). Today, if I'm not at hitcap, I adjust my gearset so I am. If there was less +hit available on gear overall, I would be forced to actually choose between being hitcapped or getting more of another stat. Today, extra +hit is wasted - if there was no such thing as "extra" +hit, it might be more interesting.

Quote:That was my first thought as well, and if true I agree with Blizzard's intention here. It will definitely be interesting if the "best" theorycraft build/gearing is significantly more difficult to play than a "runner-up" build that reaches hitcap - not in terms of number of buttons, that's silly, but adjusting-on-the-fly to misses. It definitely has the potential to separate the exceptional from the mediocre.

Quote: It's not as if 5% misses is really that big a deal in the first place.

Quote:Personally I don't see the point in this new Parry. If Parrying then Dodging wastes your "second hit half-off" thing, then it's worse than the current implementation, and if it doesn't... how is it different? 50% off on attack X and 50% off on attack Y amounts to more or less the same thing as avoiding attack X entirely. Is it just to have a different way of doing the same thing?