+- The Lurker Lounge Forums (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Lurker Games (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-6.html)
+--- Forum: Diablo II (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-8.html)
+--- Thread: Anti-Swarming Kung Fu (/thread-10532.html)
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - csivils - 08-05-2003
I've settled on paladin as my favorite 1.10 class. I've done a good bit of end game testing using cube mod (a wonderful thing), and I'm working a notwink version up when I can manage spare time.
I'm more of a meele style player (ie: no blessed hammer for me), so swarms were a definate issue. My build's tend to be very offensive in nature, so I look to my merc to solve all of my defensive needs including swarms.
My testing so far had identified two rune words that were overpowered for the cost. Call to arms (on weapon switch) and Delirium. Call to arms recently got nerfed in difficulty by adding OHM to the recipie. Delirium is still very easy to build for what it does.
Delirium 3 Socket Helms
Lem + Ist + Io
1% Chance To Cast Level 50 Delirium When Struck
10% Chance To Cast Level 14 Mind Blast When Struck
20% Chance To Cast Level 13 Terror When Struck
33% Chance To Cast Level 18 Confuse On Striking
+2 To All Skills
+261 Defense
+10 To Vitality
50% Extra Gold From Monsters
25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Level 17 Attract (60 Charges)
Take a defiance merc, throw a delirium helmet on him and he becomes a chaos machine. The more mobs that attack us, the more effective the curses become. In the event that I party with a curse style necro, I can swap out the merc's helmet to put an end to the madness.
Taking this concept of a defensive merc further, I still have to test
Gloom 3 Socket Body Armor
Fal + Um + Pul = 183708
15% Chance To Cast Level 3 Dim Vision When Struck
+10% Faster Hit Recovery
+170-230% Enhanced Defense (varies)
+10 To Strength
All Resistances +45
Half Freeze Duration
5% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
-3 To Light Radius
Key factors that would decide if I use it are if the dim vision works on ranged attackers, and how well the duration in hell works out when I'm fighting.
Craig
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - Nicodemus Phaulkon - 08-06-2003
Quote:Take a defiance merc, throw a delirium helmet on him and he becomes a chaos machine. The more mobs that attack us, the more effective the curses become. In the event that I party with a curse style necro, I can swap out the merc's helmet to put an end to the madness.
This is AMAZINGLY effective! I read your post earlier this evening, and when I couldn't sleep in the wee hours, I decided to use my rune resources to crunch an Ist and try it out in a 3 socket crown that dropped. I just cleared every frozen cave in Hell Act 5 on Players 8! With most of my belt intact! This is an unbelievably effective use of the AI strategies that have been quoted thus far.
The only notable difference between your own example and my experience was that I use a Might Griezman, instead of a Defiant version (a holdover from Tommi's "Walking Paladin" guide). With a suitable weapon on him for damage and leeching, he tanks quite admirably... and the lower defense actually would benefit the firing off of the multitude of Curses attributed to the Delirium hat.
Confuse seems to be the general theme, with the odd Mind Blast or Terror coming into play less often. Gulzar morphed into a VICIOUS little stygian doll an odd half-dozen times during the trek through Act 5, which only added to my immense amusement. In Swarming situations, the sound effects and light show (oooh... ahhh...) indicated that curses were firing off more than 1 per second! Pure Chaos, with the paladin able to cruise around and tackle the strategic kills with almost impunity. I temporarily considered putting the Delirium on the paladin, but quickly dismissed it. The paladin has been built around the considerations of defense and max blocking... which are counterproductive in a strategy that centers around the ability to take a shot to the face. Also, I'm loathe to part with my Guillaume's... so there you go: Definite Griezman equipment.
I can see Delirium becoming a mainstay on such characters as Frenetic Barbarians; the benefits to the tactical situations that the Delirium curses give could rival (or possibly outstrip) Taunt and Howl. Another group that could benefit would be Wereforms (although I might have to chew on that idea for awhile to give up my Jalal's....). I think that having it on a Merc might STILL be the choice I'd opt for with my own wereforms, regardless.
Although I expressed disdain at the need for "equipment" to adapt a mêlée build to the rigors of Act 5 Hell, I must say that this suggested equipment (right under my nose the entire time) MORE than fills the void.
Superb, csivils. Absolutely superb.
*tips helm*
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - Raziel - 08-06-2003
Can Act 2 mercs wield polearms?
I can't help thinking of "Crescent Moon"..
According to diabloii.net, Act 2 mercs CAN wield Polearms! Imagine an ethereal 3 socket Thresher with..
Crescent Moon (Shael Um Tir)
10% Chance To Cast Level 17 Chain Lightning On Striking
20% Chance To Cast Level 13 Static Field On Striking
+20% Increased Attack Speed
+220-260% Enhanced Damage (varies)
Ignore Target's Defense
-35% To Enemy Lightning Resistance
25% Chance of Open Wounds
+9-11 Magic Absorb (varies)
+2 To Mana After Each Kill
Level 18 Summon Spirit Wolf (30 Charges)
:ph34r:
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - csivils - 08-06-2003
Act 2 mercs can indeed use polearms.
In my tests I tried Doom as a weapon briefly (I love it... too bad I'll probabbly never build id) and also tried crescent moon.
For armor I tried bramble, but was not very impressed with the results. I still haven't had time to try gloom out.
Craig
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - Nicodemus Phaulkon - 08-06-2003
My paladin's Griezman is/was wielding a Crescent Moon polearm up until I tried this Delirium tactic last evening; His Static Field on top of my own Static Field from Schaeffer's BigFrigginStick™ brings Players 8 health levels under control most expeditiously.
However, I'm at a "gives and gets" stage: With the Delirium hat, the Griezman loses his primary source of Life Steal (Tal's Fugly). Crescent Moon offers many benefits, but the best is by far the Static Field. In order to gain Life Steal from the only remaining equipment slot, I would have to lose the benefit of the Duriel's Shell that occupies it snugly with resistances, life and (most importantly) Cannot Be Frozen. A viable option for the weapon could be any polearm that offered substantial Life Steal (I'm eyeballing The Reaper's Toll at the moment), but I'd lose the Static Field. If I rely upon the Armor to provide the Life Steal (a la Chains of Honor), I lose the Cannot Be Frozen.
The debate continues.
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - Raziel - 08-06-2003
I suggest Darksight Helm. Cannot be Frozen, and chance to cast Dim Vision when struck. Not as good as Delirium (by a long, long way!) but far more obtainable and frees up your armor slot for something with life steal.
ps. Darksight Helm comes with charges of Cloak of Shadows. Can you say "ownage"? All you need is the cash to repair it...
The other answer is to keep thawing potions on your belt ;)
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - csivils - 08-06-2003
I can see your dilemma. It is an easier decision for my situation. The way I divide end game responsibilities is that my paladin is the offense and the merc is the defense. Therefore, I ended up going with a life leech weapon and resists on body... I don't mind if he gets frozen, his aura and curses still fire while frozen... I do however mind if I get frozen :) Life leech on a 1.10 merc is not nearly as important as it was in 1.09, although it is still a nice to have.
I'm currently running my notwink 1.10 paladin when my real life schedule permits... so it will be a while before I'm running through hell/8 again.
Craig
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - Striker - 08-06-2003
Raziel,Aug 6 2003, 10:25 AM Wrote:ps. Darksight Helm comes with charges of Cloak of Shadows. Can you say "ownage"? All you need is the cash to repair it...Since Nico's looking for merc gear, it's kind of tough for them to use charges and pots. ;)
The other answer is to keep thawing potions on your belt ;)
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - GenericKen - 08-06-2003
I forget, does chance to cast on striking/struck trigger on Iron golems?
It'd be interesting to get two deliriums out in the field for mass chaos amongst the CEing.
But what exactly happens when your IG casts delerium?
An even better question: What happens if you cast delerium while in wereform... and timer out of wereform whilst under delerium?
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - Bhima - 08-07-2003
Great thread!
The Paladin is my favorite class right now, but I was getting discouraged that it didn't seem like I could solo with him. It's sounding like with some equipment that we can make up for the lack of Terror, Blind or Confuse. Even if it's just a Coif of Glory or Rattle Cage.
As far as skills go.... I made a new Pali a couple days ago and I've been testing smite as a method for crowd controll. I've got Smite up to lvl 9 and its been great so far in normal difficulty. Smite is pretty good at "Anti-Swarming" but it doesn't help much against a group of archers like the Barbarian's Taunt or Howl.
The other thing I'm trying that seems to help against Swarms *and* Archers is keeping my blocking as high as possible. I have to compromise my "all offense" tatics (was BH + Charge with maul) but I might just be able to stay alive in later difficulties this time. B)
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - Raziel - 08-07-2003
Striker,Aug 6 2003, 09:15 PM Wrote:Darksight Helm comes with a chance to cast "Dim Vision on striking" which is like a retaliatory blind.Raziel,Aug 6 2003, 10:25 AM Wrote:ps. Darksight Helm comes with charges of Cloak of Shadows. Can you say "ownage"? All you need is the cash to repair it...Since Nico's looking for merc gear, it's kind of tough for them to use charges and pots. ;)
The other answer is to keep thawing potions on your belt ;)
Furthermore, I believe you can now feed your mercs thawing potions.. don't quote me on that though.
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - Striker - 08-07-2003
Raziel,Aug 7 2003, 12:28 PM Wrote:Darksight Helm comes with a chance to cast "Dim Vision on striking" which is like a retaliatory blind.The Dim Vision retaliatory strike might be useful, but the charges are still useless for mercs.
Furthermore, I believe you can now feed your mercs thawing potions.. don't quote me on that though.
Antidote potions work with mercs, so I would assume thawing ones would work too. It's just that you have to give it to them, rather than letting them take one as needed. So while having thawing pots (if they work) handy in case the merc is frozen, it's just more management to do. Which may be extremely tough to do in the middle of a firefight like the ones Nico's been describing.
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - Raziel - 08-07-2003
I thought you could press shift + [belt slot] and feed the merc what's on your belt.
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - Striker - 08-08-2003
Raziel,Aug 7 2003, 04:56 PM Wrote:I thought you could press shift + [belt slot] and feed the merc what's on your belt.Yep, you can, and I usually do, but in situations where I'm being swarmed like in Nico's pictures, I tend to guzzle a few of the pots for myself and forget about the merc.
I also tend to let my merc roam free and only give them rejuvs if needed. I'm not much for management, I'm afraid.
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - Nicodemus Phaulkon - 08-08-2003
Quote:Therefore, I ended up going with a life leech weapon and resists on body... I don't mind if he gets frozen, his aura and curses still fire while frozen... I do however mind if I get frozen Life leech on a 1.10 merc is not nearly as important as it was in 1.09, although it is still a nice to have.
I've been swapping equipment around on the merc as fate allows, leaving off various "must have" affixes in favor for others. As it turns out, "Cannot be frozen" on the merc turned out to be the LEAST required; quite the paradigm shift.
Life Steal was still necessary (though not to the same degree as 109) in order for my Griezman to tank effectively. Having the Static Field and other benefits on a Crescent Moon polearm are simply too far up the "Way Fun" scale to opt away from. Thus, it fell to the Armor bearing the burden of Life Steal in order to construct what I felt was the best balance. At the moment, he has a Boneflesh on, and seems to be tanking quite nicely. When I'm rich enough, a Chains of Honor would be most likely "the answer".
Gloams are still deadly, Frenzytaurs still inspire fear (and in fact a bossgroup critical hit can still put my face to the floor in a split second), Swarming still requires tactical analysis and swift boot-leather... but it's WORKABLE now. After all, I wasn't asking to be ub3R1337, I just wanted a fair friggin' chance at living past the 5 minute mark of the game. ;)
Excellent discussion, gentlemen! I knew we could come up with something. :D
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - NERDmanWhippy - 08-14-2003
Ive noticed in my few days of play, and basic info like this (thanks for the screenies and info) that there is no "build" that most of us have made that will be able to tank this new patch. There is gonna be all sorts of level 70 characters that are gonna be abandoned as mules soon after a1 hell.....just you all wait ;)....Its gonna be about as much fun as chewin on lightbulbs for a while ;)
Good luck all....Ill start posting my advancements when my friends lists gets their heads out of you know where and decide to try with me :)
J
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - Ice - 08-14-2003
Quote: Ive noticed in my few days of play, and basic info like this (thanks for the screenies and info) that there is no "build" that most of us have made that will be able to tank this new patch.No build? I have a defiant zealot that can tank and kill most mobs except for PI-Fanats (mainly just frenzytaurs I think), which I have to string out and take them out one by one. Against any single entity, I can fight them to at least a stalemate with smite. High defence + prayer-enhanced meditation + life tap + merc + clay golem + not-so-useful spirit wolves make for quite a nice tanking combo.
And for purpose of plain tanking, I have a singer ironbarb that can tank in almost any situations as well but would require someone to do the killing for him.
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - NERDmanWhippy - 08-14-2003
I did say "most" to quote myself :).....I have a conviction/conversion/vengence pally that may do really well, but slowly in hell....I haven't had much time to test it....
J
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - Raziel - 08-14-2003
I'm working on a build myself. It'll rock... if it doesn't suck!
ps. No i'm not joking or taking the piss. I haven't been near a Diablo-capable PC all week. I will test asap, legit, untwinked.
Anti-Swarming Kung Fu - whyBish - 08-15-2003
mee tooo!
Was thinking of making a tack necro, but the legit tank sorc was just too tempting, due to having a cool name ready:
Nandor TancSorc :P
eh... non-Kiwis may not get that ...
"Nandor Tanczos
Nandor is a high-profile grassroots campaigner on genetic engineering, cannabis law reform and restorative justice. First elected in 1999 he was our candidate for Auckland Central. More about Nandor."
http://www.greens.org.nz/people/mps.htm