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Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - Nomad25055 - 03-15-2005
Hitler may have had useable nuclear weapons near the end of the war! I find the very thought of that disturbing. Although they may have been much smaller than the bombs used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki they were still quite powerful, powerful enough to make me glad that they were never used. :shuriken:
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - jahcs - 03-15-2005
Scary if true.
I have my doubts
Quote:Karlsch himself acknowledged that he lacked absolute proof for his claims, and said he hoped his book would provoke further research.
Pretty close to what many conspiracy theorists say. It's the "I know they have the secret video tapes but no one has seen them" type of statement where the burden of proof becomes the burden of disproof that the next guy has to worry about.
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - Nomad25055 - 03-15-2005
I am leaning towards it being true myself. I would say its probly about 60 or so percent believable.
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - Ashock - 03-15-2005
Nomad25055,Mar 15 2005, 01:10 PM Wrote:Hitler may have had useable nuclear weapons near the end of the war! I find the very thought of that disturbing. Although they may have been much smaller than the bombs used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki they were still quite powerful, powerful enough to make me glad that they were never used. :shuriken:
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I don't really know if this is true or not, but the fact is that in the early 40's, Germany *was* much closer than the US in it's nuclear program, and if they did not kick out their jewish scientists early on, they definately would have had the bomb before everyone else. Now, that really is a scary thought.
-A
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - maniajk - 03-15-2005
That's old news! :huh:
Besides his research point that they only had a funcional neutron bomb :unsure: and it was far from being usefull in the field!
At the rate they were going they would need another 5 five years to develop a real atomic bomb. Hitler, seing how slow it was going, decided to cancel all weapons projects that couldn't be ready in a year, after all the allies were starting to invade original german teritorry. :rolleyes:
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - Doc - 03-15-2005
As I recall, Hitler had some hydro electric plant someplace that was processing heavy water that came through some underground under mountain channel. He collected quite a bit of radioactive material to use for experiments. I don't remember much, but it was a booked called "The Eagle's Nest" or something like that, which talked about Hitler's atomic fixation.
They were very very close to several major breakthroughs, but I don't know about them having an A-bomb. The book claims that the Russians came in and "cleaned up" all the atomic research in this facility, including A-bomb prototypes.
They were close.
Hitler had his science goons working on a rocket that could hit America... Makes me wonder what he planned on hitting us with.
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - Ashock - 03-15-2005
Doc,Mar 15 2005, 04:44 PM Wrote:The book claims that the Russians came in and "cleaned up" all the atomic research in this facility, including A-bomb prototypes.
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Any book that claims that the russians stole some type of new technology, must be listened to with absolute seriousness, and (this is hard to believe, I know) I'm not joking about that.
-A
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - Doc - 03-16-2005
IIRC, the book, which was fairly old, written before the fall of Russia, back in the late 70s, early 80s.
Hazy memory recalls the book claiming that Hitler may have detonated a Plutonium bomb on some island. Roegner? Roeger? Damnit, my mind is not as sharp as it used to be.
The Russians did infact, come in and "clean up" not one, but several of Hitler's heavy water facilities. There was even a special on that some years ago on the History Channel. The Russians took everything. EVERYTHING out of these facilities. The turbines, the machines, the research labs, everything. And according to the book, all the A-bomb prototypes. Also took the special machines that extracted the heavy water. These facilities were thought to be hydro-electric plants, but America bombed one, and then attacked it with troops and according to some nameless source, found a scientific wonderland of research labs tucked away into the mountain.
The same book also talks about how German scientists were captured and brought to America to work on our rocketry programs.
I remember really liking the book, but can't remember enough of it now to save my life.
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - pazuzu - 03-16-2005
Actually, one research facility producing 'heavy water' was sabotaged here in Norway, by the underground resistance.
It is indeed true that they came pretty close with their research on nuclear weapons, allthough I have no idea if they were ahead of the US or not.
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - Doc - 03-16-2005
I heard about Norway. Can't seem to find enough info about it.
I sorta like this stuff here... It's a great mystery. With no clear answers. :shuriken:
What I did read about the facility in Norway made me sick. Hitler was studying the effects of radioactive materials on human subjects (Jews) just to see what it would do to them.
**Shudder**
Evil.
**Shudder**
Ick.
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - maniajk - 03-16-2005
Ashock,Mar 16 2005, 01:54 AM Wrote:Any book that claims that the russians stole some type of new technology, must be listened to with absolute seriousness, and (this is hard to believe, I know) I'm not joking about that.
-A
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The tehnology wasn't new then nor is it now. :huh:
Maybe we shouldn't "listen" to the book, we should maybe read and pay some attention to it instead. :P
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - Kevin - 03-16-2005
Doc,Mar 15 2005, 06:08 PM Wrote:IIRC, the book, which was fairly old, written before the fall of Russia, back in the late 70s, early 80s.
Hazy memory recalls the book claiming that Hitler may have detonated a Plutonium bomb on some island. Roegner? Roeger? Damnit, my mind is not as sharp as it used to be.
The Russians did infact, come in and "clean up" not one, but several of Hitler's heavy water facilities. There was even a special on that some years ago on the History Channel. The Russians took everything. EVERYTHING out of these facilities. The turbines, the machines, the research labs, everything. And according to the book, all the A-bomb prototypes. Also took the special machines that extracted the heavy water. These facilities were thought to be hydro-electric plants, but America bombed one, and then attacked it with troops and according to some nameless source, found a scientific wonderland of research labs tucked away into the mountain.
The same book also talks about how German scientists were captured and brought to America to work on our rocketry programs.
I remember really liking the book, but can't remember enough of it now to save my life.
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I have recollections of that as well. There was some follow-up research that dealt with Heisenberg's journals and the Farm Hall transcripts that seem to indicate that Heisenberg and several other German physicists were doing what they could to hold things back, either by focusing research efforts elsewhere or introducing deliberate miscalculations. But so much of that is hard to prove and much of what could prove it is still classified.
It is known that the Germans were well ahead of anyone in the field before the war started which makes it somewhat surprising at how little the progressed during. Some of the Farm Hall transcripts point to the fact they never could have gotten government support to run a big enough project. The Manhattan project was huge and there were long term commitments that most likely would not have been made by the Germans that hurt the effort.
But I would not be surprised if they did get a bomb developed and tested. A lot of what America did was done by Germans who had defected before the war started or building on what Germany had already done. The space program was helped a lot by what we got out of German scientists after the war as well.
Anyway, I do hope more can be found out about it, but the truth is going to be harder to really determine the farther we stap away from it.
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - Doc - 03-16-2005
If Hitler had develped the Super V, with the ability to hit America, what was he planning to hit us with? Detonative payloads like those that hit England? Poor London. New York and DC and the whole East Coast would have been a target. Even scarier, what if he did manage to get a (prototype) plutonium or some heavy material bomb lobbed off? A dirty bomb even, in the most crude sense of the word.
What scares me is how behind we were. While we had prop driven airplanes to deliver our high tech A-bomb, Hitler was working on rockets with global reach to do the same thing.
If he had been given a little more time to get his crap together before the war started, the world could have been a very different place now.
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - pazuzu - 03-16-2005
Yeah, so, rather than me giving shady 'facts' at best, I figured I dig up some reliable information.
The first link is an article by the Ministry of Foreign affairs, and as such is very to the point without much detail I'm afraid.
http://odin.dep.no/odin/engelsk/norway/his.../032005-990466/
Second one seems pretty acurate and sums things up pretty nicely with some more detail, regardless of the horrid layout.
http://members.tdn.com/~dagwood/Allies.html
The most interesting thing, as far as I can see is that the one main act of sabotage Milorg agreed to do ended up being pretty important, crippling the heavy water production entirely.
Oh, and apparently there is a huge exhibition by (loosely translated) the Norwegian Sivil Front Museum, here's the info I could find in English giving some more detail. Should be an interesting read even though it's tied to the exhibition:
http://www.mil.no/felles/nhm/start/eng/exhibition/
Small edit: Figured I might tell why Milorg was hesitant to agree to 'open provocation' via sabotage and direct conflict:
http://www.explore-places.com/world_geogra.../Telav%E5g.html
Not one man from that island survived, and the incident reminded Milorg that their first priority was to protect people, not engage in combat.
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - maniajk - 03-16-2005
Ashock,Mar 15 2005, 10:57 PM Wrote:I don't really know if this is true or not, but the fact is that in the early 40's, Germany *was* much closer than the US in it's nuclear program, and if they did not kick out their jewish scientists early on, they definately would have had the bomb before everyone else. Now, that really is a scary thought.
-A
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Yes, indeed, the Americans were far behind and Hitler could have made it if the allies attacked later. But because the allies attacked when they did, Hitler's resources became streched and he needed weapons very fast, so he decided to cancel all weapons projects if they couldn't be ready within a year! By the rate they were going they couldn't have been ready in five years! :P
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - jahcs - 03-16-2005
After the war the allies, especially the U.S., grabbed as much research material from the Germans as they could. They even allowed many Nazi scientists (not just German scientists, but full-tilt-Nazis) to come to the U.S. if they would work on research projects.
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - Ashock - 03-16-2005
maniajk,Mar 15 2005, 06:18 PM Wrote:The tehnology wasn't new then nor is it now.
Maybe we shouldn't "listen" to the book, we should maybe read and pay some attention to it instead.
Yes, indeed, the Americans were far behind and Hitler could have made it if the allies attacked later. But because the allies attacked when they did, Hitler's resources became streched and he needed weapons very fast, so he decided to cancel all weapons projects if they couldn't be ready within a year! By the rate they were going they couldn't have been ready in five years! :P
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Before you go and try to correct someone, try to make sure that you know for certain that you know more about that particular topic then they do. Without checking, my guess is that you are about 13-15 years old. It shows. A man's got to know his limitations. Since you are not yet a man, I will limit my comment to just that. I probably should have just ignored this, but maybe, just maybe I just saved a life, heh.
-A
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - eppie - 03-16-2005
Nomad25055,Mar 15 2005, 08:10 PM Wrote:Hitler may have had useable nuclear weapons near the end of the war! I find the very thought of that disturbing. Although they may have been much smaller than the bombs used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki they were still quite powerful, powerful enough to make me glad that they were never used. :shuriken:
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I think we have the same situation here as in the Iraq-war.
If Hitler would have those bombs, why wouldn't he have used them?
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - Rhydderch Hael - 03-16-2005
Doc,Mar 15 2005, 04:57 PM Wrote:...What scares me is how behind we were. While we had prop driven airplanes to deliver our high tech A-bomb, Hitler was working on rockets with global reach to do the same thing.A high altitude, long range bomber capable of large warloads and high speed to prevent interception. Faster, higher, and farther than any other bomber then in the world.
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Never mind that the suckers lit up brighter than a July 4th fireworks display should an engine catch fire... :blush:
Germans were the first with useable atomics?!? - Doc - 03-16-2005
eppie,Mar 16 2005, 02:47 AM Wrote:I think we have the same situation here as in the Iraq-war.
If Hitler would have those bombs, why wouldn't he have used them?
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Hitler was an obcessed megalomaniac and a perfectionist. He may have been holding his ace in his sleeve for just the right moment, and never got that right moment. Hitler was the sort that would have believed that it was going to get better and swing in his favour any minute now. And because of his delusions, well, he did some very dumb things, like, oh, lemme think for a moment, attacking the Russians is a good example.
Don't laugh, that happens. Once you commit to a land war in Asia, you gotta live with the consequences.
And never fight a land war in Asia!