Mountain - is it a game, is it art?

[kandrathe]

Released today is a "game" called Mountain by David OReilly.

You can do nothing but watch the mountain change over time. To me, a game requires some level of strategy and interaction. I'd say it's more of an artistic piece, and philosophically interesting.

http://www.mountain-game.com/

[Kevin]

Released today is a "game" called Mountain by David OReilly.

You can do nothing but watch the mountain change over time. To me, a game requires some level of strategy and interaction. I'd say it's more of an artistic piece, and philosophically interesting.

http://www.mountain-game.com/

Hmm Rock Simulator 2014 has competition.

[Jester]

Interactivity is the very core of the meaning of games as a genre. I don't think this is a game. An experience, maybe. (Strategy is not essential, as far as I'm concerned. Strategic games are a subset.)

Which raises the question: Are classic nonstrategic "games" like Candy Land and Snakes and Ladders "games" at all?

-Jester

[kandrathe]

Which raises the question: Are classic nonstrategic "games" like Candy Land and Snakes and Ladders "games" at all?

I never felt "good" about games where 100% of the outcome was either predetermined or based upon chance. I would say even in more popular card games, chance can give you a bad hand, but you may still win depending on how well you play it, and how badly your opponents play theirs.

Then again, I don't really enjoy the 2D scrolling action games like Mario, because they depend almost entirely upon real time hand eye coordination skills. They feel too skill based.

[Jester]

Which raises the question: Are classic nonstrategic "games" like Candy Land and Snakes and Ladders "games" at all?

I never felt "good" about games where 100% of the outcome was either predetermined or based upon chance. I would say even in more popular card games, chance can give you a bad hand, but you may still win depending on how well you play it, and how badly your opponents play theirs.

Then again, I don't really enjoy the 2D scrolling action games like Mario, because they depend almost entirely upon real time hand eye coordination skills. They feel too skill based.

Strategic decisions in the face of risk (or the reduction of uncertainty to risk, more precisely) is one of the hallmarks of random games - I'm a big fan of any game that incorporates random elements, so long as there is always a way out. Maybe you drew 2-7 offsuit against the other player's nuts pair of aces, but if you can convince them that you lucked into a straight flush, you still win. That's a good game, to my mind.

Super intensive reflex games have never been my thing, but then, neither have sports. They're definitely games, maybe even good ones, but I'm not obligated to like them.

-Jester

[Alram]

I like Rock Simulator 2014 better. It has a sense of humor.

[FireIceTalon]

I don't mind games that require good hand/eye coordination skills as long as the mechanics of the game are good.

Most of the Nintendo games from the 80's required you to have good hand/eye coordination skills, but they for the most part also had terrible mechanics. I remember being frustrated to no end trying to beat the original Ninja Gaiden. It was one of the hardest games on the Nintendo console, but in a flawed sort of way. When you would kill a monster it would instantly respawn, many situations where you were required to jump across a chasm would result in death if you didnt time the jump EXACTLY right, and so on. I remember finally beating the game after who knows how many tries, and then never touching it again.

I was a big fan of Diablo 1 PvP because it too requires good skills, yet the mechanics are much better designed then games like the one mentioned above. They are more intrinsic and passive within the game itself then they are out in the open. In other words, the player has a bit more control of his/her situation here. D1 pvp has its flaws (desync situations, some builds are imbalanced and overpowered, and there are bugs that can be easily abused) but it is well conceived (especially considering the games age).

The greatest game to me ever though, still, is chess. Sadly, computers have stripped it down to a science practically at the Grandmaster level, and many of the openings have been analyzed and memorized through the entire game. But for all intents and purposes it is the ultimate strategy and thinking man's game. There is very little luck involved, and I like that. Games that have lots of luck involved, while they are still games, I am less inclined to like them because the skill factor is less.

[kandrathe]

Now, Archon was my favorite chess type game so far.

[FireIceTalon]

Interesting. Looks almost like chess meets DnD. All the pieces apparently move different and then have different abilities when they actually do battle. Is this only available on the NES console, or is there a PC version too?

[Kevin]

Now, Archon was my favorite chess type game so far.

I used to play that on my Commodore 64. But since you controlled combat and I got so good with anything that wasn't a pawn it got way too easy. I mean I could kill anything with a manticore, at least when playing against the CPU. Pheonix vs Pheonix battles could go on forever in human vs human too.

[kandrathe]

Now, Archon was my favorite chess type game so far.

I used to play that on my Commodore 64. But since you controlled combat and I got so good with anything that wasn't a pawn it got way too easy. I mean I could kill anything with a manticore, at least when playing against the CPU. Pheonix vs Pheonix battles could go on forever in human vs human too.

I've been hoping this one gets a face lift actually. It was a game before it's time (graphics-wise). When battle chess came out for the Amiga, I thought finally that we'd see the great unit to unit combat phase from Archon combined with chess move strategy. Heroes of Might and Magic III for example, is sort of similar in the turned based (move phase, combat phase) although the "chess board" is a randomly generated complex map with multiple objectives. Still hoping someone resurrects it, or maybe it's old enough to be PD and I could built an open source free-ware version myself.

[FireIceTalon]

Battle chess! Played this on the NES console as a kid a ton. Some of the combat phase sequences were hilarious, in particular the way the rook pounds the knight into the ground literally, and laughs as the knight just helplessly swims in the dirt up to his neck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTlVP5cn0nw