The Lurker Lounge's Future

[Bolty]

Hi all. Benevolent Dictator Bolty™ here with an update on this website and its future direction.

The Lounge was founded in 1999 as a side project in HTML design to track Diablo 1 strategy. A few short years later, it was a gigantic (in terms of traffic for those days of the Internet) gaming site covering Diablo II in-depth, and was almost overwhelming in terms of activity. These days, the Lounge obviously is a small forum sitting in a tiny corner of the Internet where a bunch of crotchety old gamers kibitz over politics and discuss "them good old days." Which is just fine with me.

However, honestly here, I'd kept the site going for a LONG time (10+ years really) waiting for that Diablo III game that only finally materialized about 8 years later than it should have. And it's no secret that I was disappointed by it. I couldn't make up my mind if Diablo III just failed to capture the essence of the original games or if so much time had gone by that those kinds of games just don't interest me anymore. Maybe it was a combination of both, but in either case, it left me sitting around wondering what to do with this place.

There is an insane amount of history to this website. There are people still visiting here regularly that were around back in 1999. When you consider how fast the Internet moves, that's pretty nuts. Gaming websites were all fan-driven back when this place got kicked off. Nowadays it's all corporate. The Internet itself has changed massively and yet we're still sitting here. Sometimes a user comes back after years and years go by, and surprisedly exclaim "wow, I still have my account here." Yep. We don't throw things out here at the Lounge.

So here's my conundrum: I don't really want to hang this place up. You ever want to lose an afternoon? Try digging through the forums reading things from 2003. Poof, where'd the last hour go? More information and knowledge is sitting around here about Diablo II than an encyclopedia. I love it. But I have no idea what to do from here. Diablo III didn't really pull things together, and the Internet's changed so much since the D2 days that without a really strong driver of the site who is crazy committed to following the game, it's not going to go anywhere.

Add to that something else: the cost of running this place is not really justifying its existence. The domain registration is coming up for renewal in May, and the monthly server costs are starting to look like a poor value proposition. I'm just starting to debate shutting the whole thing down after almost 13 years.

So I'm calling out for some help here. I'm looking for a place to put the site, somewhere where I can have MySQL databases, a few hundred megabytes of storage, the freedom to plop this MyBB forum software, and let's say about 200 gigabytes of bandwidth a month. Cheap. Being able to run a Mumble server (Murmur) a plus. I'm currently paying $50/month for the Lounge to be hosted, plus domain registration fees. If that can get cut to $10/month or less, great, and we can keep this home for kibitzing about them good old days. If not, well, it'll be time to start backing things up, finding new homes for things like Jarulf's Guide, and to start saying our goodbyes to each other. I'll never forget this little home on the web.

We still have a few months here, so I'm hoping to start a decent conversation on some options we have. Any help is appreciated.

[shoju]

I would check with Hostica.com

Their cheap plan, is $1 a month, and covers everything that you would need except the Mumble Server stuff. I'm not sure how much they charge for something like that. (I have my personal sites on there, and even have them as the host for my employer's site)

They are a decent lot of people, if sometimes a little "too nice" (they once took my request for information on an error as "allow that error to be shut off in modsecurity)

You could even bump up to the $5 a month plan and what not.

Again, the only thing I'm not sure about is the Mumble Server.

I would really hate to see this place die. I really would.


Oh yeah, if you qualify for it, Hostica is running a $1 domain renewal right now. It's weird to qualify for though. I don't know everything.

They even have an online chat session with their sales department if you wanted to get questions answered now.

[LochnarITB]

I would check with Hostica.com

Hmm, Hostica looks very interesting but it almost feels too good to be true. How can they support all that for $1 per month? Moving arewehavingfunyet.com comes to mind every once in a while. I pay way too much for hosting and domain registration, especially since I do almost nothing with it other than Freshman Diablo and parking files in /diablo and /diabloii. How long have you been with them? Would they be a good service for hosting and domain registration for a very simple site owned by someone mostly clueless about hosting issues or do you need to be pretty knowledgeable to keep it from being a really bumpy ride?

[Luna]

I use http://www.modwest.com/, a local place I can walk into downtown. The YEP hosting works for my personal needs & is suitable for small business stuff too.

Setup was ~$200 for 2 years IIRC.
I love the work you've done here, lurker since DSF days.

[Taem]

So what I hear you saying is that as much as you enjoy this place, you'd rather hang your hat of it then pass the torch, correct? Let me clarify; what I'm saying is I see you wanting to put the LL on a much cheaper server and let it run itself while you stop in from time to time to say "hi", but if someone else wanted to take over the LL, it'd most likely go against your interests. I believe this because it seems to me you'd be better off either, 1) passing the buck to someone else interested in running the place and letting them find a new forum host, or 2) letting the place die off. Your choice, the, "let everyone continue to post on the LL while I stop by and say hi every now and then," is interesting, but most likely not in your best interests, which again is why I'm so curious as to your response; I'm leaning towards nostalgia.

BTW, I'm not interested in taking over any website so don't get the wrong idea. I can't lie however; since you've posted this, it got me thinking and I'm curious as to what someone else could do with this site. I've seen Laz's site explode with activity once Marco took over, so naturally, I wonder if you gave this option any consideration or if that would be too taboo for you to let somebody else take over this site. So I suppose this was really a two part question.

[Occhidiangela]

Donations accepted?

Is the matter monthly bills, or it is time Bolty must invest?

(PS, I forget, are you a Dad yet? I recall that you got married, but not recalling any news of Bolty Junior arriving ...)

[shoju]

I would check with Hostica.com

Hmm, Hostica looks very interesting but it almost feels too good to be true. How can they support all that for $1 per month? Moving arewehavingfunyet.com comes to mind every once in a while. I pay way too much for hosting and domain registration, especially since I do almost nothing with it other than Freshman Diablo and parking files in /diablo and /diabloii. How long have you been with them? Would they be a good service for hosting and domain registration for a very simple site owned by someone mostly clueless about hosting issues or do you need to be pretty knowledgeable to keep it from being a really bumpy ride?

I've been using them for 8 years now. It used to be 3-3-3, but then last year they took it all to $1 a month, and increased what they gave people. The only thing I've had a problem with, was actually for my business site.

They gave me the runaround on some scripting errors, but that was more of an asshole support person, not a company problem.

the $1 a month plan, might be a little small, I would probably do the $5 a month plan if it were me. (for the lounge)

In short, they would be great for you Loch. The $1 a month plan is great. I have my completely neglected personal site on their (I haven't done anything with it since I graduated college), as well as an old business site, and I host all of my own images on their.

[Bolty]

So what I hear you saying is that as much as you enjoy this place, you'd rather hang your hat of it then pass the torch, correct?

Mmm, not really. I've asked off and on for years if anyone wanted to take this place over and run with it. No one has ever seriously taken up that offer. A few have offered to merely maintain it, but I can (and I have) do that as well as the next guy. If there was someone who was really hardcore into Diablo III running this place, it could have had a niche as a dedicated Diablo III blog. The Lurker Lounge was basically a Diablo blog site - with a forum - long before the word "blog" existed.

BTW, I'm not interested in taking over any website so don't get the wrong idea. I can't lie however; since you've posted this, it got me thinking and I'm curious as to what someone else could do with this site.

I'm curious, too. So I'll turn this on you and ask: what would you do with this site, given the time and energy to run it?

[Bolty]

Donations accepted?

Is the matter monthly bills, or it is time Bolty must invest?

Neither. Well, the monthly bills are an annoyance, which is why I mentioned cutting down on the price. If this place were $5 a month, no big deal. $50 a month for a site with so little new activity isn't worth it. Timewise, I don't mind that at all because I enjoy tinkering with the site; I get to brush up on linux and mySQL databases. But the problem with donations is that it creates an obligation to keep everything running forever and ever, so I stopped taking them years ago. You wouldn't want to donate $100 and see the site close 3 months later, would you? I didn't want the ethical obligation of taking other peoples' money on my hands anymore. There are a few members of the Lounge who really put in some solid cash in the past to help pay for the place, and I'm very grateful for that.

(PS, I forget, are you a Dad yet? I recall that you got married, but not recalling any news of Bolty Junior arriving ...)

Indeed, mini-Bolty has been around in my life for close to 2 years now. The little guy is a lot to handle, but I sure love having him tearing up the house. It's fascinating watching another human being in a state of OMGWTFGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO...plopsleepwakeup OMGWTFGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO...

[eppie]

Hi all. Benevolent Dictator Bolty™ here with an update on this website and its future direction.
We still have a few months here, so I'm hoping to start a decent conversation on some options we have. Any help is appreciated.

The lounge is one of the those websites that doesn't bombard you with commercial banners etc. It is just a quiet nice page where you know what to find when you visit it.

Not being a real game freak (I haven't even bought D3 yet and 9 out of 10 times I have no idea what people are talking about in 'new game threads'), for me the lounge is just for getting over and over again in endless political discussions with 3 or 4 people I don't even know.

But I can really understand your position Bolty, to me your a saint for creating, managing and supporting this place for so long.

[Taem]

BTW, I'm not interested in taking over any website so don't get the wrong idea. I can't lie however; since you've posted this, it got me thinking and I'm curious as to what someone else could do with this site.

I'm curious, too. So I'll turn this on you and ask: what would you do with this site, given the time and energy to run it?

That's an open ended question. This sites strong points are of course it's dedication to whatever video game it is dissecting at the moment, and it's political conversations, yet of the latter there is no dedicated support, save for its member feedback. What I would do to gather fresh new ideas and potential new traffic is:

1. NEWS
a) On the front page portal, have a news ticker to the right of the main "news" page with current news.

b) Once a week, have someone post the most intriguing political happenings that really deserve more insight and feedback from our stalwart crew here. More details? Alright; I'm talking about someone with moderator status who, on a weekly basis, makes either a single post with the most pertinent news available, or several short posts (no more than, say three) describing the event by quoting an article, then commenting about it. Already being done, you say? I disagree, and feel there are always noteworthy articles that mightn't have been given their own thread by members because the contents didn't seem that inflammatory, however that does not mean the piece is not worth discussing.

c) Invite others to join our conversations at the LL in the comments section below the news articles used. You'd be surprised how well this works. Not spam botty, but more like, "<insert opinion of the subject here followed by> it would be cool to continue this conversation at the Lurker Lounge." Of course, the person (or persons) finding the news would be the ones posting in the comments. <IDEA> I was just hit with an idea; maybe if three people wanted to find one story for the week, this whole process wouldn't be much of a burden, maybe something done in ten minutes or so.

2. VIDEO GAMES

a) Diablo III was created as a cash-cow, set to monopolize the slot-machine item system of Diablo II by exploiting players urges to get more powerful with better gear. Case and point on this: there are better games out there!

b) Torchlight 2 is highly moddable like the old Diablo I, and the GUI and play-style are reminiscent of Diablo II in almost every way. Path of Exile is dark like Diablo I and has a set of skills that function almost exactly like Diablo I did (you "find" your skills) with the difference that the skills level up the more you use them; I'd honestly call Path of Exile the true spiritual successor to the Diablo franchise. Also, there are plenty of Mod's for DII to discuss, the first that comes to mind of course is Median XL.

c) New content is what brings new people. Just offering different forums for titles such as these will not draw people to this small section of the web. D1 and D2 had Jarulf, Spirea, and many, many others contributing to the finer details behind the games. Finding fanatics like this are like finding a needle in a haystack, and getting them to come to your website are impossible unless they decide to on their own. Instead, I think discussing what is achievable and new would be paramount: modding TL2, the upcoming MXL: Sigma mod for D2, possibly PoE. These things might attract new attention to this place from old members and new alike. I'd start by getting current member feedback on this.

d) Once the member feedback is in and the decisions made, I'd invite members from other boards with similar interests to come here and discuss these mods, how they will change the current game, and what they'd like to see in the mod, and who is developing them. Having modders use this site as their idea generator would be awesome! Of course, this whole section would require another moderator to scout out and locate new and upcoming mods. Aren't there already sites that are dedicated to doing this, you ask? Yes, of course, but there were sites (such as Phrozen Keep) who were already doing what the LL was doing in it's heyday to, but that didn't stop us!

NOTE: This section is the weakest link of my entire discussion. It makes the most sense, but is also the most difficult to implement.

3. IMAGE

a) The design of this site is beautiful, but it has been for the last... I don't even remember, at least five years plus. Most businesses I've worked for change their image slightly and their catch slogan phrase at lease once every five-years to stay fresh! Isn't it time this site has had a face-lift? I'd start by lightening the wood grain background to a more sandy wood color, and adjusting all the colors for bars, banners, etc accordingly. Maybe giving all boxes rounded edges instead of square edges.

b) New content! I'd add new smilies in addition to what is already available. Allow users to create polls. Maybe include the karma idea, like how the new median xl site has cookies. Also, I'd create a separate forum for FORUM GAMES; these seem to be a smash hit on multiple web sites, and a nice place to unwind.

c) I'd add bi-weekly polls to the front page portal ranging from hot topic video game comparisons, to political news articles and even political alignment polls. Maybe two polls, one for video games, the other for news worthy articles. Might asking about political alignment cause discord? I really doubt it, and in fact think it'd open up further political discussion on the issue.

4. UPDATES

I'd have someone in charge of updating the news portal (with all this new content) daily, and start a facebook and twitter page (linked) for this news content; whatever was posted on the portal page would be automatically posted on the facebook and twitter page (my son set this up on the website he created). New times require a website to get with the times it seems; it seems a majority of the websites I've seen now have a Facebook and Twitter link. As owner of the LL, you can also use that medium to post your personal thoughts on the Lounge itself, the people who frequent it, and how running the site affects your life.



That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. Just ideas.

[LochnarITB]

what would you do with this site

Nothing, other than reducing/eliminating the time and financial burden on you, Bolty.

I am not a fan of change. Big fan of "If isn't broke, don't fix it". But, I could be called stick-in-the-mud or boring too. The LL is like my internet comfy chair and the wood stove in the old country store.

Like my chair, people might not like the way it looks. Some might think it smells funny. It might seem lumpy. But, it reflects me. I'm not a real looker either and I'm probably starting to smell of old man. My lumps fit just right into its lumps. If something does break on it, only then do I want anything "fixed" and I want it as close as possible to the way I had gotten it worn in. It is where I start my day and where I return throughout.

Like the wood stove in the old country store, the LL is where folks I like gather to talk about the things we enjoy. They come together knowing that the discussion, while sometimes heated, will generally be intelligent. The kiddies come and try to bother us but they're quickly shooed away. Once in a while someone will say "Have you heard about..." or "Did you know that..." and the discussion will turn. Some like to drive the discussion and others like to listen and just add in bits that they feel strongly about, but they all treasure their place and would not want to see it replaced by a new MegaMonsterMart.

My wish is that it would remain as it is, in perpetuity. As generally goes with my wishes, this one too will in all likelihood fail and I'm sure the LL will go away sooner or later, either by going too flashy and pulling the wrong crowd or simply just fading away. In that light (and hopefully a long time from now) I once again thank you, Bolty, for this comfy chair by the old wood stove that you have brought to us for so long.

[Bolty]

New content is what brings new people.

Correct. There's a strong correlation between the amount of time I spent adding content to the site and the draw it had to bring in good posters - the Jarulfs, MongoJerrys, and Spireas of the world. When the content started winding down, so did the posting activity. As one would expect.

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. Just ideas.

Those were all pretty good ideas. I found it interesting how much you entertained the notion of the LL as a politics site, because it does reflect how this place has morphed over time. This was never intended to be a political discussion website, but as interest slowly waned on the gaming side, politics wound up filling the gap.

Or it's just the most interesting thing to post about that's left after the Diablo games got old. I find it odd that some people use this site to try to constantly push their political ideology, but different strokes for different folks.

The only thing I could imagine doing for the LL content-wise nowadays is to write a WoW Priest blog. Even then, there are already several excellent ones out there and my writing would be very off-and-on: probably many weeks of frenetic activity followed by a month or two of nothing, depending on where my Real Life™ takes me. That's a very niche interest in any case.

[kandrathe]

For what it's worth; I have most of the most popular games for multiple platforms; PC; PS3, XBox, Wii -- I'd be willing to contribute some well reasoned content with obviously my particular gaming biases and experiences on a periodic basis (not more than weekly, more likely monthly). We just jumped onto the iPad wagon last Christmas -- and my boys have been playing around with various augmented reality games.

For me, it would just be a matter of working with the editors to align with content directions.

[Occhidiangela]

So much for my once vaunted memory.

It is a good thing that Bolty the Second has arrived. There is an heir. Should we refer to him as RM II? (Veiled reference to a fine Redskins quarterback ... )

Your core point was: this was a Dibalo and Diablo II blog before blogs were.

Very succinctly put.

If you let it go, what will be lost?

[LennyLen]

I'd definitely support a Path of Exile section of the site. PoE has been my main time-waster fro the last six months.

[cheezz]

If you let it go, what will be lost?

I suspect that you are looking for a literal answer. Although I cannot do that, I can give you an answer....

Nothing.

Everything.

I have never been a steady poster, and I haven't had time to game much in at least 9 years, but I have lurked, and I have read. I know life evolves, but it would still be very strange to not have a LL.

[NuurAbSaal]

If you let it go, what will be lost?

Nothing.

Everything.

This.

Much love to Bolty for keeping the Lounge around for what seems like eons.

take care
Tarabulus

[shoju]

I thought, when the whole mumble server went on the lounge, that I had checked with Hostica to see what plan you would need to have a mumble server. I was digging through my old support tickets, and found the answer.

To have a Mumble Server capable hosting plan, you would need a dedicated server plan through them. That's where the serious cash comes in. There dedicated server plans start at $249/mo.

Unfortunately, that's not going to work.

I was doing some other checking, and I'm pretty sure that the lounge would fit (and could even grow a substantial amount if desired) on the simple hosting plan. I mean, I don't think the lounge is over 30gb in size is it? and I doubt that we hit 100gb of traffic in a month do we?

The big hitch is the Mumble Server

[Mavfin]

Much love to Bolty for keeping the Lounge around for what seems like eons.

take care
Tarabulus

It has been eons. I remember hosting the place somewhere around 1999 for a while, before the advent of really cheap and reliable hosting.