Bourgeois pigs kill suicidal 16 year old boy.

[FireIceTalon]

Link with videos: http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/19917831...lanta-news

CHEROKEE COUNTY, GA (CBS ATLANTA) -
The parents of a 16-year-old suicidal boy spoke only with CBS Atlanta News' Wendy Saltzman after their son was gunned down by a police sniper in Cherokee County.

Lisa and Nick Messina said their son was killed at the hands of the officers they called for help.

According to his parents, Andrew Messina had a bad day at school and the pressure was so overwhelming, he grabbed a gun and threatened to kill himself.

Lisa Messina called the cops in desperation, hoping an officer would come talk to him. But what arrived was an army of deputies, an armored tank and a sniper.

"We would still be sitting there today if it weren't for that very, very aggressive act that he made of ramming the gun and a pistol straight through a glass door at our officers," said Cherokee County Sheriff Roger Garrison, on the day after the shooting.

Garrison painted a picture of a dangerous gunman taking aim at his officers, and defended his sniper's fire.

"Had that officer not taken the action, there is a good chance one of those negotiators that was there who also has a family, also would not be going home today," Garrison said.

But the other side of this story has never been told before, a story about a boy described as a pacifist who some say was needlessly killed.

"Would you have ever called the police if you had known this could have happened?" Chief Investigative Reporter Wendy Saltzman asked Lisa Messina.

"That's the one thing I would have done different today. I would not have called 911," she said.

Andrew Messina's parents are speaking out for the first time to tell what they say really happened to their son on May 1, 2012. They say their son had just gotten a bad grade at school.

"He just got sad and kind of down on himself and talked about running away. And that discussion turned to ending his life. And I wasn't home," Nick Messina said.

"It just happened so fast, and then he went upstairs. He has the gun in his hand, and he had bullets in the other hand," Lisa Messina continued.

Andrew Messina picked up the phone and called 911.

"I need you to get away from him if you think he is going to shoot you," the 911 operator said on the call.

"I think he is going to shoot himself," Lisa Messina replied.

The operator told her to get out of the home, and Lisa Messina asked, "How many cars are coming? Just one, right?"

"I'm not sure," the operator replied.

But next thing they knew a slew of officers arrived.

"They brought an army to take out a 16-year-old boy. To kill a 16-year-old boy," Nick Messina said.

The teen was inside his home alone with no hostages. He had a 357 Magnum in his hand and was drinking and threatening to kill himself. He took a video of the events inside the home, including this conversation speaking to his father on the phone just minutes before he died.

"You can't find anything worth living for with me?" Nick Messina asked his son.

"I don't know," Andrew Messina replied.

"Really?" Nick Messina asked.

"I do know personally I really don't want to live. So you should just let this happen if you really love me," his son said.

Law enforcement negotiators soon cut off that call and put their negotiator on the phone with the teen.

"They are still standing out there," Andrew said. "Go away or do something, the tension is killing me."

Deputies in combat gear surrounded the home, with the frightened teen inside.

"We thought that they would (be) experts in being able to diffuse the situation. And that was not what happened. Instead of the fire being put out, they brought gasoline," Nick Messina said.

On the negotiation call, Andrew Messina said he wasn't involved in a riot, rather he was angry.

"Is that a riot shield? Yeah, that's a riot shield," he said. "This isn't a riot, this is one person who is pissed off."

On the call, Andrew Messina also begged negotiators several times to speak with his father.

"Hey, where's my dad? Isn't he supposed to be here?" he said.

At the time, Lisa and Nick Messina were down the street, just a few feet away.

"That just bothers me more to think that my son was in here, by himself, minutes before his death, asking for me," Nick Messina said, crying.

About 15 minutes before the fatal shot, Andrew Messina's parents saw sniper Jason Yarbrough walk past them in camouflage, with his riffle over his shoulder.

"I couldn't believe the gun he had," Lisa Messina said. "I said, 'Whoa, where is he going with that gun?'"

Yarbrough set up across the street in a neighbor's yard, which he estimated to be 65 yards from his target. The sniper scope, focused on the front door, helped him to see clearly as if he was holding a gun from just five feet away.

"A minute later we heard this horrendous cannon shot and he was dead," Nick Messina said.

"It was absolute shock and numbness, like no, there is no way they shot him. But they did," Lisa Messina continued.

The sheriff said the teen made an "aggressive gesture" that caused a sniper to fire his weapon to protect law enforcement officers.

But new evidence presented only to CBS Atlanta News by the Nick and Lisa Messina's attorney may tell a different story.

"We have not been able to find any justification whatsoever for that Cherokee County Sheriff sniper to shoot Andrew Messina. Zero," said attorney Chuck Pekor.

Pekor is a former federal prosecutor and a former cop who has been scouring through the case to uncover evidence that Andrew Messina didn't need to die.

"There is nobody in there with him. There is nobody at risk except himself. You just give it time, just wait," Pekor said.

The standoff had gone on a little more than an hour when Andrew Messina was killed. The sheriff justified the fatal shot, saying the teen threatened his officers.

Andrew Messina was inside the house holding the gun, and hit the top pane of glass with the gun. Negotiators were standing outside the house behind a wall around the corner from the door.

In the Georgia Bureau of Investigation report, Yarbrough said he heard a "pop" that sounded like a gunshot and he observed Messina through his riffle scope pointing the pistol at deputies.

"Not a single officer out there, not a one, ever saw the gun come through the hole where the break was," Pekor said, citing the GBI report.

Pekor argues that any trained law enforcement officer would know the difference between breaking glass and a 357 Magnum being fired. And not a single shot was ever fired from Andrew Messina's weapon.

And Pekor says there's another problem.

"He pretty much had his back to the negotiation team when he was shot. How could he possibly have been threatening them?" Pekor questioned.

The bullet came through the door while Andrew Messina was inside the home. The autopsy report says Andrew was shot in the right side of his abdomen, and the bullet exited the left side. According to that description, the teen was facing the opposite direction from where negotiators were outside the home.

Yarbrough was on the scene less than 20 minutes before he pulled the trigger and admitted he didn't even know if there was a hostage inside.

Pekor and others are concerned the sniper acted in haste, without being properly briefed that Andrew Messina was a suicidal teen, not a hardened criminal.

"Obviously it was an act of aggression against him. And my perception of the situation was that he was not, himself, being aggressive," said Susan Ehtesham, one of Andrew Messina's former teachers.

"Would this make you hesitate to call the police?" Saltzman asked neighbor Leeanna Tucker.

"I would never call them for help now," she replied.

An internal investigation by the Cherokee County Sheriff's Office and the district attorney both found there was no criminal wrongdoing by Yarbrough.

Saltzman made numerous attempts to interview the sheriff, the sniper and the commander on the scene, but the sheriff's office refused, saying "The case is closed."

But it's far from closed for the family who has filed notice of their intent to file a lawsuit against the Cherokee County Sheriff's Office.

This world is FUCKED, and no one gives two shits.

[DeeBye]

Can you make your title just a bit more inflammatory?

[Taem]

Sound like a case of bad training to me. Nothing more, nothing less. It's very unfortunate, but I'd hardly blame all police in America for one jumpy snipers bad actions. The rest of the police obviously were never trained properly in suicide prevention and just fell on their hostage negotiation training. It's too bad, and I'm sure there will be retraining to do, but again, you can't blame all police in America for a captain and a snipers bad training.

[FireIceTalon]

This is beyond bad training man....they brought a friggin tank, army, and a sniper against one suicidal kid. I mean, like seriously? This reeks of fascism. I don't like cops to begin with (cause they are indeed bourgeois protectors, and I don't know of any self-respecting socialist that does like them), but this type of shit just enrages me to the core. I guess me posting this is my way of venting.

[Nystul]

Sound like a case of bad training to me. Nothing more, nothing less. It's very unfortunate, but I'd hardly blame all police in America for one jumpy snipers bad actions. The rest of the police obviously were never trained properly in suicide prevention and just fell on their hostage negotiation training. It's too bad, and I'm sure there will be retraining to do, but again, you can't blame all police in America for a captain and a snipers bad training.

I agree. But it's also not good enough to say they weren't trained properly. It sounds like the team on site knew there was no hostage situation before the sniper arrived. So why was he set up and why were officers approaching the house? Without knowing the details of everything that went on at the scene, those decisions seem to defy common sense much less suicide prevention training. Gross negligence perhaps. I'm not even getting into the guy who pulled the trigger because he did not have much margin for error in making a decision. Point is he shouldn't have even been put in that situation.

You take a jury from that community and present them with this lawsuit and the sheriff is going to need a lot better excuses than that his officers were threatened.

[kandrathe]

First, let me quote from the article, "He had a 357 Magnum in his hand and was drinking and threatening to kill himself." How does that happen? Where did he get the loaded gun? Where did he get the booze? As with all these tragedies that involve mental illness, it's those closest to the person who are best able to get that person help before they turn on themselves or society.

Second; When your local police department justifies outfitting a paramilitary SWAT team, or buys military capabilities, they are going to justify that expenditure with whatever scenario comes available. That might be the imagined deranged psychopath, but more realistically its the grandpa with Alzheimer's, or this case. I'm not criticizing (as much) the police for their actions, as I am our increasing militant response to domestic issues. Like other similar cases in our recent past, the one thing that the police tend not to do these days is have the patience to wait. But, it's far too easy to judge this without all the facts and in hindsight.

But, in general, my observation is that if someone brings a grenade launcher to the gun fight -- sure as heck, someone gonna suggest using it.

[FireIceTalon]

So, now we have cops that like to taser 10-year old boys when they don't want to participate in forced child labor.

http://rt.com/usa/news/taser-boy-playground-webb-611/

This world is disgusting. If it was my kid he did that to, this guy would be dead - cop or not.

[GhastMaster]

This is a sad story. I have heard many like it. I hope for their sake officers never try this around me or mine.

Here are two more websites that will make your blood boil. They have compiled many government abuses. Oh what the future holds...

http://governmentabuse.info/stats
http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

[FireIceTalon]

I think it just really goes to show how much of a vice grip the cancer of private capital has on humanity, and the actions of the State in all parts of the world, as of late, demonstrate this very well. They will go to almost any length to defend its national and class interests - even if it means shooting 14-year old girls because they defend women's rights to get an education, or tasering elementary school children because they don't want to wash your car. That second link you posted though is pretty hilarious - "Individual Liberty, Free Markets, and Peace", since they are all just conservative talking points that have little relationship to reality.

This world is truly sick, and lately, I feel like I am living in the dark ages.

[Taem]

I think it just really goes to show how much of a vice grip the cancer of private capital has on humanity, and the actions of the State in all parts of the world, as of late, demonstrate this very well. They will go to almost any length to defend its national and class interests - even if it means shooting 14-year old girls because they defend women's rights to get an education, or tasering elementary school children because they don't want to wash your car. That second link you posted though is pretty hilarious - "Individual Liberty, Free Markets, and Peace", since they are all just conservative talking points that have little relationship to reality.

This world is truly sick, and lately, I feel like I am living in the dark ages.

Out of the billions of people in this world, a few bad things happen and your philosophising about living in the dark ages? And this, in our digital age when any and everything that happens hits the airwaves in mere minutes? How many more atrocities do you think were happening before our digital age? Do you really take our liberties for such granted that youd put us on the same level as, say the middle-east? Because the way you constantly bash your country, you seem to leave out what liberties you arw afforded by living here. I know you were merely making an emotional reply, but your threads have been consistent: point out the negative in society instead of focusing on the positive. If there are no redeeming qualities in the world as you see fit, if you honestly can't see how beautiful the world is in its current state, then I suppose your only purpose would be to spread your discomfort to others, which is exactly what I see you doing; but that old song and dance is played out. Sometimes I like reading your posts even though they can be long-winded, but may I suggest you try to find some redeeming qualities in the society you live in?

---

Lol, posting from my phone. Can't make any edits or scroll down to the last couple sentences. Hope that says what I wanted it too.

[FireIceTalon]

Sorry if I don't view the world through rose colored glasses. And it isn't just a few bad things - this kind of shit happens everyday, much of it goes unreported. The world is NOT a beautiful place in its current state, it is anything but. Whether it has been worse in the past or not, is not relevant from my point of view. I am not concerned with the past, I am concerned with the NOW. As a communist, I feel like I've advanced beyond the bullshit we see today, and that the rest of society is trying to play catch up.

Nationalism is inherently racist and extremely reactionary - but what is more, it's a pre-requisite to fascism, something every Leftist despises and wants to fight against. It's just a short way of saying your country and culture is better than "others". Being a "patriot" and a communist are not compatible - one is reactionary, the other revolutionary. This is part of the reason Maoism and Stalinism are NOT compatible with Marxism - they have nationalistic elements, based on the flawed doctrine of 'Socialism in one country' (which is also very un-Marxist). Racial and gender equality, and internationalism are the pre-requisites to being a good communist.

Besides, as Marx said, the working man has no country anyway - it is controlled and operated by and for a ruling class. Why should I support a country that doesn't give two shits about me? All they want to do is keep me, my family, and friends as wage slaves so the rulers can sit back and relax, while we do all the work and they extract profits from our labor (we get table scraps). And then it wants to send OUR children to fight THEIR (the capitalists) wars to go kill a few people whom we've never even met, in the name of "serving your country" (translation: making a bunch of politicians and corporations richer) because they have ideological problems with whoever it is they are going to war with. Fuck that they should send their own children, I'm not interested, nor should any other reasonable person be. In fact, Ill quote Howard Zinn here and say that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - now that is a form of patriotism I can get down with.

Yes, America is relatively more democratic than the middle east - but it is still extremely reactionary, backwards, and ignorant. Terms like "liberty", "democracy", and especially the false dichotomy of "libertarianism vs authoritarianism", from a Marxist perspective, are meaningless, because they are at best, relative, and generally difficult and subjective to define. Liberty you say? Define liberty. And liberty for who? When and where? The same issue applies to democracy and all the other little words we love to throw around wildly. Lastly, the quality of life we have here is better, largely because of American imperialism and exploitation of lesser developed nations. Nothing to be proud of man, so people can take their patriotism and ethnocentrism and stick it where the sun don't shine as far as I'm concerned. And while I despise nationalism from any nation, I have a particular dislike for the American version, for personal reasons....

I remember once in like 3rd grade, I didn't say the pledge of allegiance because I had strep throat or something, and being ridiculed afterward by the teacher and some of the students. The teacher actually got quite offended and gave me serious grief for it, actually saying something like "you little communist, you are supposed to say the pledge of allegiance". Now mind you, I had no idea what a communist or communism was at the time, or even really what the purpose of the pledge itself was. I just know that my throat was hurting that day so I wanted to keep talking to a minimum. I look back at that incident and realize what a fucking asshole that teacher was. If I had a kid and this happened to him/her, I'd probably go down to the school and burn the flag in front of the whole class and say "yes, I'm a communist, I hate America and capitalism, and my son/daughter doesn't have to say the pledge if he/she doesn't fucking feel like it. Got it?"

Anyways, I can crack a smile or laugh as much as anyone else, and as I said in the past, I generally avoid politics in most social settings [in person] unless someone else brings it up first. But when it comes to that subject, don't expect any sympathies regarding the current way of things from me, cause you won't get them. The redeeming qualities I see in this world would be my family and wonderful girlfriend - they are my reason for living, and without them, I would probably be indifferent to my own existence.

[kandrathe]

“No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won’t make it worse. (Apr 2007 Gen Conf)” ― Jeffrey R. Holland

[Occhidiangela]

"Would this make you hesitate to call the police?" Saltzman asked neighbor Leeanna Tucker.

"I would never call them for help now," she replied.

Moron. It is no coincidence that this fool projects the same "it's all doom and gloom attitude" that the OP has displayed.

Please wallow in your misery as you will, but don't pretend that you are justified in condemning cops as pigs. It isn't the color of your glasses, it is the problem with the blinders you have on.

That said, I concur with kandrathe's concern about the greater acceptance of overly aggressive/militant responses in some police forces. My brother in law is a cop. He's an advocate of the more frustrating, but ultimately more effective, community policing mode that his chief is integrating into the department's SOP. The Chief understands that long term trust building makes for better leads, and better law enforcement. You could compare his approach with successful COIN operations and find remarkable similarity. The "hearts and minds" thing takes more work and more patience, but it provides benefits you can't get with force.

[Jester]

Sorry if I don't view the world through rose colored glasses. And it isn't just a few bad things - this kind of shit happens everyday, much of it goes unreported. The world is NOT a beautiful place in its current state, it is anything but. Whether it has been worse in the past or not, is not relevant from my point of view. I am not concerned with the past, I am concerned with the NOW.

Convenient. So, you don't have to pay attention to the difficult balance between good and bad, or how things are getting better or worse. You just have to find some things that you think are unacceptable, and then condemn the existing system.

Do you see how that logically excludes the obvious case for reform, rather than revolution?

As a communist, I feel like I've advanced beyond the bullshit we see today, and that the rest of society is trying to play catch up.

I'm just going to kick back and let that sentence sink in for awhile.

-Jester

[FireIceTalon]

"Would this make you hesitate to call the police?" Saltzman asked neighbor Leeanna Tucker.

"I would never call them for help now," she replied.

Moron. It is no coincidence that this fool projects the same "it's all doom and gloom attitude" that the OP has displayed.

Please wallow in your misery as you will, but don't pretend that you are justified in condemning cops as pigs. It isn't the color of your glasses, it is the problem with the blinders you have on.

That said, I concur with kandrathe's concern about the greater acceptance of overly aggressive/militant responses in some police forces. My brother in law is a cop. He's an advocate of the more frustrating, but ultimately more effective, community policing mode that his chief is integrating into the department's SOP. The Chief understands that long term trust building makes for better leads, and better law enforcement. You could compare his approach with successful COIN operations and find remarkable similarity. The "hearts and minds" thing takes more work and more patience, but it provides benefits you can't get with force.

They're all pigs. Period. Only decent cops I ever met where the ones that didn't like their jobs.

---

Convenient. So, you don't have to pay attention to the difficult balance between good and bad, or how things are getting better or worse. You just have to find some things that you think are unacceptable, and then condemn the existing system.

Do you see how that logically excludes the obvious case for reform, rather than revolution?

That isn't what I was really thinking about when I typed this, but since you want to go there, yep, reform doesn't work, and it never will - not as a final solution anyway. If it did, this thread wouldn't even exist. I am pretty sure it is against the law to taser unarmed 10-year old boys who don't want to perform forced child labor, but yet it happened anyway. So much for your reform . You still seem to have little understanding of the role of the State in society, or even what it really is I'm afraid.

In short, you want to start another 'capitalism is the only way, there are no alternatives' argument, and you want to construct the argument so that it is done on capitalisms terms only, so it i will be more difficult to argue against it: you want to put reform on the table so the entire debate centers around that, in an attempt to make capitalism look irrefutable. Perhaps the Marxists around your neck of the woods fall into that trap, but unfortunately for you, I'm not one of them. If I thought reform was a legitimate and fundamentally effective way of solving the worlds problems, there would be no point in me being a Marxist, and I'd settle for Social Democracy. If you even so much as mention the word "reform" in a discussion with me, I will dismiss it as the irrelevant drivel that it is - and move on to the next point you make. Now that we have established that, think about it long and hard if you wish to proceed or not.

[Jester]

Reform should never be on the table or set the terms of a debate for a Marxist, and I won't allow it - I will leave that to liberals and social democrats. If you even so much as mention the word "reform", I will dismiss it as irrelevant, because that's exactly what it is - and move on to the next thing you say. Now that we have established that, think about it long and hard if you wish to proceed or not.

Proceed to what? You have no interest in coming to any conclusion but your own, and refuse to even discuss alternatives. Any conversation would be entirely one-sided - you "won''t allow" anyone to propose anything else, and "won't fall for the trick" of listening to any other argument. Apparently, you only listen to other Marxists, which frankly explains a lot.

-Jester

[FireIceTalon]

And again,

If I thought reform was a legitimate and fundamentally effective way of solving the worlds problems, there would be no point in me being a Marxist, and I'd settle for Social Democracy.

[Jester]

And again,

If I thought reform was a legitimate and fundamentally effective way of solving the worlds problems, there would be no point in me being a Marxist, and I'd settle for Social Democracy.

And if you learned that you thought wrong, would you change your mind? Or are arguments something that are settled in your world by picking an ideology and following it to the exclusion of all others?

-Jester

[FireIceTalon]

The reform vs revolution debate was settled for me a long time ago, and the science of history, role and development of the state in relation to class society, and the objective material processes in them are enough that not only is there no reason for me to change my mind, but that doing so would be in error. Yes, I know you want to 'un-Marxify' me - I will save you the trouble: it isn't going to happen. Although there have been times where I did question the Marxist view of the State, and considered moving even further to the left into Anarchism, but nah. I have seen enough debates between Marxists and Anarchists to know I am comfortable where I am.

It is you though, that is interested in ideology, not me. Marxism isn't an ideology (religions, capitalism, and communism are ideologies), and in fact, we kind of view "ideology" as a dirty word, because it is generally class based. We are interested in scientific workings of economic and social systems, not subjective ideological agendas.

[Jester]

The reform vs revolution debate was settled for me a long time ago, and the science of history, role and development of the state in relation to class society, and the objective material processes in them are enough that not only is there no reason for me to change my mind, but that doing so would be in error.

It is you though, that is interested in ideology, not me. Marxism isn't an ideology (religions, capitalism, and communism are ideologies), and in fact, we kind of view ideology as a dirty word, because it is generally class based. We are interested in scientific workings of economic and social systems, not subjective ideological agendas.

Certainly nobody could ever make an argument that you, in your wisdom, have not already considered, right? You've thought of it all? Seen all the evidence? Know all the facts? Rejected all potential ways in which you could be wrong about this, and therefore have no need to discuss it further?

Your loud dismissals remind me of nothing more than creationists, unwilling to be sucked into evolutionist "traps." They discovered their unerring truth long ago, and to seriously consider other ideas would be an "error." And there's certainly no need to debate any of it, or consider the actual record of evidence, because it's all been figured out ages ago by the quasi-mythical prophet who gave us the truth!

I am interested in ideologies. Notably, I'm interested in how people stick to their received capital-T Truth, which is definitely-not-an-ideology-because-mine-is-right-unlike-all-those-other-ones. I agree, ideology is a dirty word. It denotes dogma, a religion of ideas, a rejection of the difficult, messy process of getting closer to the truth. And you, sir, have one with bells on.

-Jester