US ambassador killed over a film

[kandrathe]

Enlightened minds will try to suppress such instincts, but it's tied deeply into our mental structures because tribal groups enhance survival and the passing on of genes.

Like Animaniacs...

The first step in being enlightened is to acknowledge how our pursuit of spreading our genetic material helps drive our murderous, and libidinous natures. As much as we'd like to claim our biology as a defense, we pretty much know better than go out on rape and pillage sprees -- gawd I miss the dark ages...

[shoju]

OH SNAP! An Egyptian Christian is the man behind the film... Well now, that certainly does put some spin to the wheels...

[kandrathe]

OH SNAP! An Egyptian Christian is the man behind the film... Well now, that certainly does put some spin to the wheels...

He is also on parole for federal bank fraud charges in California and setting up fraudulent bank accounts using stolen identities and Social Security numbers. You know... just like an Egyptian Christian living in California... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19591039 more details here -- http://www.businessinsider.com/nakoula-b...ory-2012-9

Why is being an anti-Christian bigot different than being an anti-Islamic bigot?

[shoju]

OH SNAP! An Egyptian Christian is the man behind the film... Well now, that certainly does put some spin to the wheels...

He is also on parole for federal bank fraud charges in California and setting up fraudulent bank accounts using stolen identities and Social Security numbers. You know... just like an Egyptian Christian living in California... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19591039

Why is being an anti-Christian bigot different than being an anti-Islamic bigot?

I hope you don't think that I'm an anti-Christian bigot.

I'm highly critical of Christianity, more so than others might be, because for 18 years, it was shoved down my throat. I'm pretty conflicted on a lot of the issues. I almost went to Seminary, thinking that would fix my "crisis of faith".

If I come off as an Anti-Christian Bigot, I do apologize. My intention is to come off more as a guy who is really conflicted with his upbringing, trying to make sense out of the views that I hold true because of what I was taught, and what I've learned since I moved out of my parents house.

I know the good, the bad, the ugly, of Christianity, and in the 15 years of my adult life, have spent a good amount of time studying Catholicism, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, trying to figure out how all of these people can have the same core belief structure, yet vary so wildly, and hate each other so much.

[Taem]

Why is being an anti-Christian bigot different than being an anti-Islamic bigot?

This sounds like the beginning of some joke. So what's the punchline?

[kandrathe]

This sounds like the beginning of some joke. So what's the punchline?

A rope walks into the bar, the bartender says "hey, we don't serve ropes here!" Stressed out, he exits.

The next day the rope enters and before he can belly up, the bartender is already yelling "I told you we don't serve ropes here!" Again, looking frazzled, the rope exits.

The third day the rope get himself all tied up and walks in. The bartender shrieks "Didn't I tell you we don't serve ropes!" The rope responds "Hey! I'm a frayed knot."

[kandrathe]

I hope you don't think that I'm an anti-Christian bigot.

You might not realize how it comes across...

If I say, "There was a gang shooting on the south side between two 17 year olds." as opposed to "There was a gang shooting on the south side between two black 17 year olds."

Why did I need to add the word black? Is it definitive to the crime? Nope, it reinforces the stereotype that gang crime is black crime.

You chose two adjectives to label the filmmaker, whereas there are many others that might describe him; Convicted criminal, Male, Egyptian, Californian, maybe even radical extremist -- we don't even really know if he is a Coptic Christian, or if he was just the guy who made an anti-Islam film as part of a scam. It seems possible based on the hearsay that he intended (as Sam Basile) to make it appear that it was Israeli Jews who funded the film. Maybe he hates both, and wanted to start a feud in the middle east. If this were someone like Pat Robertson, then yes, we'd be safe in describing the actions of a known political Christian.

What role did the "conservative anti-Islam activist" Steve Klein play in making and distributing this film? It seems to be quite alot, and this guy is a *real* right-wing nut job -- much more on the order of the Ku Klux Klan, Stormfront, paramilitary crap.

[FireIceTalon]

I hope you don't think that I'm an anti-Christian bigot.

You might not realize how it comes across...

If I say, "There was a gang shooting on the south side between two 17 year olds." as opposed to "There was a gang shooting on the south side between two black 17 year olds."

Why did I need to add the word black? Is it definitive to the crime? Nope, it reinforces the stereotype that gang crime is black crime.

Now you sound like a Marxist

Anywhoo, regarding religion; I am by no means an expert on the forming of each of the major individual religions around the world, or the cultural circumstances that they are manifested by. But religion as a whole is probably the oldest form and best example of Idealism. The reason I am Atheist is because I am a Materialist - Idealism and Materialism are diametric opposites. Almost all Materialists (Marxist and non-Marxist alike), are Atheist. Nationalism, of course, is also a form of Idealism, though much newer obviously and thus not a good example to use for understanding the origins of Idealism, or religion.

The development of religions and Idealism are probably quite parallel. Idealism was developed during a time when material conditions of society had no legitimate scientific method or inquiry, and thus history could not be analyzed or explained through such a basis. Man could not properly explain the material or social phenomena that was constantly changing around him, and therefore the development of abstract thoughts, Idealism, was formed as the basis for analysis. I would suspect that the belief in a sort of deity to explain phenomena was the oldest form of Idealism.

Idealism is a tool always used by the ruling classes in various societies through history to manifest their interests, though it was by no means something they actually devised. So while religion probably was not originally devised to control people, it nevertheless has been used to do so, very often, and still is in a number of societies.

Materialism holds that matter precedes thought in a continuous, ongoing, dynamic and indefinite process. It is completely grounded in scientific method and analysis. Any thought or idea that gets in the way of material force, is ultimately destroyed and replaced with something else. Human interaction is influenced by ideas to be sure, but the minute any material condition that necessitates such an idea is altered or expired, that idea is done away with. Ideas cannot do away with the existence of material conditions. Society doesn't exist to adjust to human consciousness or existence, but the opposite rather.

[Ashock]

We do seem to get all excited and draw the usual knee-jerk conclusions from initial reports, don't we, Ashock? (I know it isn't just you that does this. It is a human trait, exacerbated by the speed at which 'news' gets to us.)

I doubt that any of us will really find out the entire story even in the long run, but second thoughts reported today by the CBC suggest that the attack in Benghazi might not have been quite as spontaneous or religion-based as the initial report suggests.

Deadly U.S. consulate attack in Libya possibly planned

If you read my whole post.... carefully, you'd notice that I mentioned all of the violence that is going on because of this film.

From the OP: "Even more importantly, who is rioting en masse over this movie? A movie!".

Forget the killing of the counsel if you want. Look at what is going on in several different countries and look to the reason the so called demonstrators are giving for the voilence.

If you feel like keeping your head buried beneath the sand, go ahead. Don't worry though, that won't save you in the end.

[FireIceTalon]

We do seem to get all excited and draw the usual knee-jerk conclusions from initial reports, don't we, Ashock? (I know it isn't just you that does this. It is a human trait, exacerbated by the speed at which 'news' gets to us.)

I doubt that any of us will really find out the entire story even in the long run, but second thoughts reported today by the CBC suggest that the attack in Benghazi might not have been quite as spontaneous or religion-based as the initial report suggests.

Deadly U.S. consulate attack in Libya possibly planned

If you read my whole post.... carefully, you'd notice that I mentioned all of the violence that is going on because of this film.

From the OP: "Even more importantly, who is rioting en masse over this movie? A movie!".

Forget the killing of the counsel if you want. Look at what is going on in several different countries and look to the reason the so called demonstrators are giving for the voilence.

If you feel like keeping your head buried beneath the sand, go ahead. Don't worry though, that won't save you in the end.

Well, what did you think the result was going to be when a hateful video such as this goes public? That they were going to be happy about it? Use your head man.

If a film maker in Hollywood made a pro Holocaust documentary or movie, what do you think the result would be? You would definitely see violent protests break out in Israel, and it could even go as far as to damage US-Israel foreign relationships. In the particular circumstances, you are talking about countries that have a shaky relationship with America at best to begin with, several of which already downright HATE America. And you didn't think something like this would happen? Not saying blowing up US Embassies is justified, but you are very naive if you think this type of thing wasn't going to happen. You play with fire, you will get burned.

[shoju]

You might not realize how it comes across...

If I say, "There was a gang shooting on the south side between two 17 year olds." as opposed to "There was a gang shooting on the south side between two black 17 year olds."

Why did I need to add the word black? Is it definitive to the crime? Nope, it reinforces the stereotype that gang crime is black crime.

You chose two adjectives to label the filmmaker, whereas there are many others that might describe him; Convicted criminal, Male, Egyptian, Californian, maybe even radical extremist -- we don't even really know if he is a Coptic Christian, or if he was just the guy who made an anti-Islam film as part of a scam. It seems possible based on the hearsay that he intended (as Sam Basile) to make it appear that it was Israeli Jews who funded the film. Maybe he hates both, and wanted to start a feud in the middle east. If this were someone like Pat Robertson, then yes, we'd be safe in describing the actions of a known political Christian.

What role did the "conservative anti-Islam activist" Steve Klein play in making and distributing this film? It seems to be quite alot, and this guy is a *real* right-wing nut job -- much more on the order of the Ku Klux Klan, Stormfront, paramilitary crap.

Uh. I think you missed out on the reason why him being identified as a Coptic Christian (In layman's terms: Egyptian Christian) is different than your example.

As a religious minority, the Copts are often subject to discrimination in modern Egypt, and are the target of attacks by militant Islamic extremist groups.

I chose those two, because they are the two adjectives that would shed light on WHY he did what he did, and WHY he would then conceal his identity, and try to pass on the blame on someone else.


I could almost understand you thinking I'm an anti-christian bigot if you looked really hard at the negative stuff I post about it, without reading everything else that I've posted about it. But just based on that? You missed the point man.

[Lissa]

Try again, being normalized is the whole point of being suppressed.

This makes zero sense to me. It's like white is black, up is down, war is peace. If this is the basis of your argument, I'm not sure I even understand where to go from here. If you were right, the Soviets would have normalized the stock market and gone to church, the Nazis would have listened to klesmer while eating matzoh, and the Klan would read Franz Fanon and celebrate Kwanzaa.

If something is normalized, that means it's totally integrated. Normal. Regular. Part of everyday life. Not controversial, not foreign, certainly not suppressed. Huge parts of US culture are actually German culture, and if this was pointed out, nobody would be offended, nobody would shut down the Lutheran churches, nobody would burn your copy of Faust. If they've forgotten it, it's because being German is no longer even slightly controversial.

-Jester

Postscript: Dear lord. If you live in a world where people don't know where schnitzel and bratwurst come from, or that "Du Hast" is German, or that classical music is mostly dead German guys, then I'm not sure cultural suppression is your problem. Education is.

Again, you're not getting it at all. If you walk up to someone and ask them the origin country of the hamburger, how many people do you think will tell you the US instead of Germany? Yet if you ask the same person the origin of Lasanga, you'll likely hear Italy.

Also, if you look around, outside of a couple minor instances, do you ever hear of a "German Pride" in the US, no you don't. On the other hand, you hear all kinds of mentions of things like Italian Pride, Latino Pride, Irish Pride. How often do you see German actually taught in schools where as you see Spanish, French, Italian, and even things like Japanese and Chinese taught in some locals.

Why is it you also think that a lot of names that were German in origin have been Anglicanized in the US, even today?

You also have to realize that the majority of posters on this board are also smarter and more knowledgeable than your typical American.

[DeeBye]

Well, The Onion weighs in on this in spectacular fashion.

Not very worksafe.

Though some members of the Jewish, Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist faiths were reportedly offended by the image, sources confirmed that upon seeing it, they simply shook their heads, rolled their eyes, and continued on with their day.

[Jester]

Again, you're not getting it at all. If you walk up to someone and ask them the origin country of the hamburger, how many people do you think will tell you the US instead of Germany? Yet if you ask the same person the origin of Lasanga, you'll likely hear Italy.

You keep saying this as if it means something. Why does this matter? If you asked people what nation Christopher Columbus was from, I'm sure at least 95% of people would botch it. Does that mean Italian culture is suppressed? Or if you asked them where Fajitas are from, and they guessed Mexico, does that mean Texan culture is suppresed? People can't tell you Tomatoes come from Mexico, or Potatoes from Peru, or that General Tso's Chicken is from almost anywhere but China. This is a silly argument. Just because people are ignorant doesn't mean there is some dark force behind their ignorance.

Also, if you look around, outside of a couple minor instances, do you ever hear of a "German Pride" in the US, no you don't. On the other hand, you hear all kinds of mentions of things like Italian Pride, Latino Pride, Irish Pride. How often do you see German actually taught in schools where as you see Spanish, French, Italian, and even things like Japanese and Chinese taught in some locals.

At least according to the wiki, German is the third most spoken and taught second language in the US, ahead of Italian, Japanese and Chinese, and behind only French and Spanish, which blows all its competitors out of the water.

Oktoberfest seems pretty popular, dead Germans still utterly dominate classical music performance and education, people still drink an awful lot of Beck's, and I've never met a single German who wasn't at least vaguely proud of their culture. Yes, you can't talk comfortably about WWII, but then, talking to Americans about slavery (or the Native Americans) is no picnic either.

Why is it you also think that a lot of names that were German in origin have been Anglicanized in the US, even today?

Why have any names been Anglicized? Because the US is an English speaking country. Nevertheless, obviously German last names are still very common.

You also have to realize that the majority of posters on this board are also smarter and more knowledgeable than your typical American.

The argument "German culture is marginalized" is a different argument from "most people are too ignorant to tell Germany from Antarctica."

-Jester

[DeeBye]

Oktoberfest seems pretty popular, dead Germans still utterly dominate classical music performance and education, people still drink an awful lot of Beck's

Volkswagen, Mercedes, and BMW are popular cars in the US.

[NuurAbSaal]

Oktoberfest seems pretty popular, dead Germans still utterly dominate classical music performance and education, people still drink an awful lot of Beck's

Volkswagen, Mercedes, and BMW are popular cars in the US.

There was also that thing with that Austrian born actor (man, just like Hitler), that had moderate success in Hollywood and Californian politics. What was his name again? Oh yeah, Blackeneggre.

take care
Tarabulus

[shoju]

I'm crossposting this from Maintankadin. One of the members over there is a Marine, currently stationed abroad (not in Libya). He took some time and gave us a breakdown of what happened in Libya.

It offers a little more insight into things, including the culture of Libya, and some other information that shoots shows that while the protest was about the movie, the attack was more than just a protest gone wrong.

Ok, well, I’ll break down the background for you.

First off, here’s a map of Libya.

Note the location of Benghazi in the Northeast, along the curve of the coast. Benghazi was the location of the original rebel movement which overthrew the dictator Muammar Gaddafi in 2011. Tripoli, in the Northwest, is the capitol city and was one of the last places to fall to the rebellion. Tripoli is the current location of the US Embassy. Benghazi contains a US Consulate, which was where the original diplomatic relations with the rebel government were established, early on in the conflict, because that was literally the only place under their control.

SIDEBAR: “What is the difference between an Embassy and a Consulate?”

The Embassy is located in the nation's capitol city. It contains the Ambassador. The Ambassador is the senior diplomatic representative of the United States, to the government of the host country.
A Consulate is a section responsible for issuing tourist and immigration visas for entry to the United States, and assisting American citizens living and traveling in that country. It is headed by a Consul General.

Generally there will be a Consulate in each major city within the country, each with it's own Consul General. In the capitol city, the Consulate will be a section within the Embassy. All Consulates within the country are subordinate to the Embassy, and the Ambassador. There is only one Ambassador, but there is a Consul General for every Consulate.

The United States has supported the revolutionary government of Libya since the early stages, both with aid money, administrative guidance, and the weight of the US air power during the fighting as a part of a NATO joint task force also including French, British, and other troops.

Libya recently conducted their first democratic elections in July of this year, in which the moderate party won and formed a relatively liberal and secular government by the standards of the region (e.g. no sharia law by-and-large).

Libya contains a large number of different ethnic and religious groups, and as such has a lot of cultural tension. The population includes black Africans, nomadic Berbers, Turks and white Arabs, Coptic Christians, as well as various sects of Islam. The population speaks French and Arabic.



CHAIN OF EVENTS

On September 11th, a protest by a crowd of the most conservative sect of Muslims began outside the US Consulate in Benghazi. The claimed reason for this demonstration (which also occurred in Cairo, Egypt. More on that later…) was to protest the mockery of Islam’s holy prophet Mohammed in an amateur film on Youtube.
Link to a clip from the film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kuz5PCYc...r_embedded
And the full film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTdesxykP...re=related

SIDEBAR: “The Innocence of Muslims” Movie

As you can see, the movie is a disjointed collage of scenes intended to offend Muslims. It depicts Mohammed as a bastard, a homosexual, and a pedophile. It shows him ordering massacres and pillaging innocents. It depicts the writing of the Koran as being a stream of consciousness text based on Mohammed’s convenient self-justifications and whims, and plagiarisms from the Torah and the New Testament. It depicts Mohammed saying he will appoint Omar (an important successor of Mohammed for Sunni Muslims) as Caliph to get his wife to stay silent about the fact that Mohammed raped Omar’s daughter.

It is also an incredibly shitty, basement piece of film-making. The actors who appeared in it had no idea what it was about or that they were depicting Mohammed. Every reference to Islam or Mohammed or the Koran in the movie did not appear in the script, but was dubbed over in post-production. The actors thought they were appearing in a generic movie about a medieval Egyptian.

The creator is an Israeli Jew named Sam Bacile, who works in real estate in California. He is a self-proclaimed anti-Islam crusader, dedicated to “exposing the abominations of Islam”. He allies himself to an extremist Coptic Christian preacher who protests the treatment of Coptics in Egypt.

The movie, however, was published to Youtube in English, and would not have reached a significant audience under normal circumstances. However, someone dubbed it over in Egyptian Arabic and set it viral on social media in the Middle East.

This protest, while angry, was peaceful. A similar angry, though non-aggressive protest occurred in Cairo. [more on Cairo later]

That, however, is when things turned nasty.

Someone attacked the US Consulate in Benghazi, Libya. We don’t know who. It was NOT the protestors, but someone using their protest as cover. Possibly the attackers stirred up the protest intentionally in the first place. The attack likely had nothing to do with the movie.
It was NOT a protest-gone-wrong. It was a full-fledged assault.

The attackers had heavy weapons, including heavy machineguns, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, bombs, and mortars. People don’t bring that stuff incidentally to a normal protest. The firefight with the security forces defending the Consulate lasted for several hours.

SIDEBAR: “Who was defending the US Consulate?”

US Embassies and Consulates are generally built like castles. They have powerful structural defenses, and are protected by concentric layers of security and security personnel.

1) The outer layer of protection is supposed to be the police/military of the host government, in this case, the Libyan government militia. However the Libyan forces are still relatively disorganized and dispersed, and so Libyan forces were not able to get to the Consulate until too late. (In Cairo, by comparison, the Egyptian police formed a cordon around the Embassy when the protest formed, but lost their nerve and ran away when they saw how badly they were outnumbered.)

2) The next layer of defense is the Local Guard Force (LGF for short), which are basically local mercenaries that are hired and trained by the US State Department’s Diplomatic Security agency. These security guards man the perimeter walls and the vehicle entrance gates, but do not come in the actual secure embassy building. Going back to the castle metaphor, they are on the outer bailey wall, whereas the Americans are all in the keep.

3) The final line, and most powerful, line of defense are the Regional Security Officers, and the Marines. US Embassies and Consulates typically are defended by a detachment of highly-trained US Marine Security Guards (MSGs for short). They are commanded operationally by a group of Diplomatic Security Special Agents called Regional Security Officers. In truly extreme cases where an embassy is under assault and the outer perimeter is breached, the MSGs will secure the primary building from entry and repel anyone who attempts to storm it.

There were no Marines are Benghazi.

Why? A few different reasons:
1) The role of Marine Security Guards is a little bit more complex than simple physical security. Their primary responsibility is preventing the compromise of classified information and sensitive national security information and facilities. I can’t go into more detail than that, unfortunately. This is significant because Consulates normally do not contain any of this, being focused on issuing visas and other simple administrative work. So they often do not have any Marines assigned to them. Some do, most do not.

2) There is a shortage of MSGs right now. And as recently as 6 months ago, some powerful voices in government were considering the idea of eliminating the MSG battalion altogether. They’d forgotten the lessons of the Iranian Hostage Crisis, and were looking to weaken security by exchanging United States Marines for private contractors. Significantly, no one is saying that any more now.

3) The Consulate in Benghazi was not meant to be a permanent facility. It is (how shall I put this lightly?), pretty “ghetto”. It’s literally a motel building complex that we requisition for the US diplomatic delegation to the rebellion for the simple reason that it was located in one of the only areas they had under their control at the time. The delegation landed, took a look around, found an abandoned motel building and said “it’ll do for now”. And we kind of just kept adding on to it. It is not very defensible, and it almost completely lacked any of the defensive features that other US facilities have. Now that the regime has been toppled and the democratic government is in place, an actual Embassy in the capitol of Tripoli has been opened, and the Consulate in Benghazi was supposed to be getting closed or rebuilt, but we simply hadn’t gotten around to it yet.

So when the attack commenced, the defenders consisted of the Local Guard Force, and a few American Regional Security Officers.

When the Consulate came under assault by heavy weapons fire, the Libyan local guards fought fiercely defending it. Many (at least 20, possibly all of them) died at their posts. This loyalty is noteworthy, and should make you stop and think.

The US Ambassador to Libya, Ambassador Chris Stevens, was present in Benghazi at the time. This was well known publically. He was on a highly publicized visit to cut the ribbon for the opening of a new American Center building. He would have been accompanied by at least two Diplomatic Security bodyguards.

When the firefight commenced, the Americans in the consulate retreated to their strong rooms, located inside. As the attackers overwhelmed the LGF defense, the Consulate building (which you will recall is just a modified motel, so not a hardened structure) began to take RPG hits, and was then set ablaze.

At this point, the Ambassador, having got word of the attack, fearlessly arrived at the Consulate building and personally went into the burning structure to rescue his men and women from their strong room and ensure everyone evacuated out safely. In the process he suffered severe smoke inhalation injuries.

At some point, an American consulate worker was killed by a gunshot wound in the crossfire while evacuating.

The workers having escaped to safety, the Ambassador attempted to depart the scene again in his vehicle. The vehicle was hit by an RPG and exploded. This is when Ambassador Stevens likely died, along with two of his bodyguards.

The normal Libyans were horrified. Chris Stevens was well liked, well respected, and the American presence relatively popular. Literally just a couple months ago, Ambassador Stevens announced that we would begin issuing US visas to Libyans again. The Libyans are genuinely grateful for the non-intrusive support for their revolution. When Ambassador Steven's vehicle was hit by an RPG, attempting to evacuate from the scene, it was normal Libyans who pulled him out, and who took him and the other casualties to other American workers located in their rally point safe house nearby, and accompanied him to the hospital, where a Libyan doctor attempted to revive him. It is possible that the angry civilian presence at the scene drove the attackers off, preventing them from following up on their attack.

SIDEBAR: “I thought the Libyans dragged Ambassador Stevens’ body through the streets?”

There is a picture floating around showing a shot that was aired on Al Jezreera TV.

Pundits have been claiming it shows a mob dragging the body triumphantly through the streets.
Note, however, the way they are carrying the body. Upright, like you would carry a wounded casualty. Not by its ankles, dragging across the ground.

This picture shows ordinary Libyans rushing the body to the hospital and to the other Americans.

The Americans, having retreated to a safe house, waited for evacuation. A team of 8 US Marines was rushed from Bahrain to escort them. The Marines landed by helicopter and proceeded to the safe house and set up defensive positions.

The Libyan government, meanwhile, was reeling in shock and dismay, and rushed a militia commander and his men with a convoy of vehicles, including a heavy gun mounted in a pick-up truck, to the safe house location.

As soon as the convoy arrived, however, the house, whose location was supposed to have been secret, immediately came under heavy machinegun and mortar fire. The mortars were too accurate to have been hastily set up; they already had the exact range of the house plotted. At least two Marines were injured, and one to two Marines, along with one Regional Security Officer also fighting in the defense, were killed.

Unfortunately the Libyan militia commander had underestimated how many American survivors would be present at the house needing evacuation. He had been told 10, but there were 37. They didn’t have enough vehicles to take everybody.
The group was forced to defend themselves from incoming fire for another hour until more government militia could arrive with additional vehicles, and take the entire group to safety.

Ambassador Stevens was pronounced dead at a Libyan hospital, with the cause of death being primarily smoke inhalation.

Meanwhile, the Libyan public is aghast and ashamed. No group has taken responsibility for the attack, and locals, both civilians and the government forces, are hunting for the perpetrators.







ANALYSIS

This was not a protest that went overboard. This was a planned, coordinated attack, by hardened, veteran, well-equipped fighters with good intelligence, good communication, and good leadership. They were quite possibly NOT Libyan.

President Obama has launched a full analysis of every single US Embassy and Consulate’s security and defenses world-wide. US Marine Fleet Antiterrorism Security Taskforce (FAST) platoons have been dispatched to reinforce threatened posts. The manning, funding, and influence of the Marine Security Guard battalion will likely increase. Posts without Marines are now begging for them, as many and as quickly as they can get.

The Embassy at Tripoli is much better defended and much more defensible than the Consulate at Benghazi was. The evacuation of Benghazi probably did not result in any compromise of national security information.

[ShadowHM]

I'm crossposting this from Maintankadin. One of the members over there is a Marine, currently stationed abroad (not in Libya). He took some time and gave us a breakdown of what happened in Libya.

It offers a little more insight into things, including the culture of Libya, and some other information that shoots shows that while the protest was about the movie, the attack was more than just a protest gone wrong.

Thank you very much for sharing this, shoju.

[FireIceTalon]

It will be interesting to see if Ashock shows his face in this thread again, after that post.

[Tal]

The anti-Muslim "movie" that served as the spark or pretext for a wave of violent unrest in Egypt and Libya may not be a movie at all.