Norway Killer gets 21-Years

[Taem]

:LINK:

Is this how they do justice in Norway? A man murders 77-people, is found competent to stand trial so clearly knew what he was doing, and gets a mere 21 years, of which the trial judge say he needs to serve at least 10 of those years... 10 freaking years?!? Are you kidding me? And the year he's already been in prison counts as time served...

He was sentenced to the maximum possible term of 21 years and was ordered to serve a minimum of 10 years in prison.

Call me a cynic, but this is not justice. I'm in shock right now that this mass murderer could potentially be out to do the same thing over again in 9-years time. America is not exactly the shining beacon when it comes to laws and justice, but there has got to be something wrong with the Norwegian justice system if that man doesn't serve the rest of his life in prison! I’m actually appalled at this situation; no, more in shock. Even the UN has stricter laws against Nazi’s when caught, and the UN considers itself very humanitarian by modest standards. Well there we go; I already invoked the first law of Godwin, so I guess I should finish this off by saying I’m sure some of those Nazi’s were guilty as sin, but a few of them were merely guilty by association, yet their sentences are far more severe then someone who actually carried out a mass murder with his own hands… I don’t even know what to say.

[FoxBat]

The sentence could be extended, potentially indefinitely, in the future if he is considered still to pose a threat to society. Norway does not have the death penalty.

So do you know how routine or not something like this is in Norway? Perhaps they handle plenty of "life" sentences through this bureaucratic process.

[FireIceTalon]

Only good Nazi is a dead one, and this guy himself has several traits of being one - namely being a staunch nationalist, being against multi-culturalism, and just being a bigoted, xenophobic and ethnocentric reactionary scumbag in general, even if he isn't actually a Nazi by title - so he is close enough. Either way, if it were up to me, he'd be maggot food.

Just another example of a reactionary and misguided moron blaming another group of people for his and the worlds problems, instead of acknowledging the shortcomings of the oppressive system that he wants to uphold, and that it is people like him that are part of the problem. But damn it Norway, dont give this guy 21 years in prison. Put his fucking ass in front of a firing squad and call it a day. I'm usually against the death penalty and Norway doesn't even have it, but in a case like this where it is cut and dry that he did it, and it is obvious he was sane and very unapologetic about his actions and therefore unlikely to ever change (not to mention he is just a reactionary douche in general), I say he isn't worthy of sharing oxygen with, and is a waste of tax payer money to keep him locked up. People like this very rarely can be rehabilitated back into society.

[shoju]

Only good Nazi is a dead one, and this guy himself has several traits of being one - namely being a staunch nationalist, being against multi-culturalism, and just being a bigoted, xenophobic and ethnocentric reactionary scumbag in general, even if he isn't actually a Nazi by title - so he is close enough. Either way, if it were up to me, he'd be maggot food.

Just another example of a reactionary and misguided moron blaming another group of people for his and the worlds problems, instead of acknowledging the shortcomings of the oppressive system that he wants to uphold, and that it is people like him that are part of the problem. But damn it Norway, dont give this guy 21 years in prison. Put his fucking ass in front of a firing squad and call it a day. I'm usually against the death penalty and Norway doesn't even have it, but in a case like this where it is cut and dry that he did it, and it is obvious he was sane and very unapologetic about his actions and therefore unlikely to ever change (not to mention he is just a reactionary douche in general), I say he isn't worthy of sharing oxygen with, and is a waste of tax payer money to keep him locked up. People like this very rarely can be rehabilitated back into society.

I find myself often disagreeing with you. I cannot even begin to on this though. I'm not normally one for the death penalty either, but 77 people SEVENTY SEVEN dead. Weren't some of them "Kids"?!

I don't know about prices in Norway, but over here a 9mm and a magazine full of ammo can be purchased (legally) for as cheap as 150 bucks. (It's a cheap gun, but it shoots right?)

$150 cash handles the problem, and frees up his 3 room bungalo for people who can be rehabilitated.

[FireIceTalon]

Hehe, my previous post was quite un-Communist of me. But even us Commies have our limits. I am very strongly against the death penalty (99% of the time), but this is one of those very rare 1% occasions where I see it as justifiable. And more importantly, as much as I hate the death penalty, I despise criminal and terrorist actions against children even more. Multiculturalism is actually a GOOD thing, yet 77 people lost their lives because this xenophobic bigot doesn't think so. It is really heart breaking to read shit like this. This incident is a perfect example of why I'm a Communist, because the Capitalist system breeds horrible tragedies such as this one.

[Archon_Wing]

Hehe, my previous post was quite un-Communist of me. But even us Commies have our limits. I am very strongly against the death penalty (99% of the time), but this is one of those very rare 1% occasions where I see it as justifiable.

Yea, I'm not really a proponent of the death penalty, but it's obvious said individual is not capable of interacting with human society. This isn't about retribution or punishment. Executing him would be the same as putting down a rabid, dangerous animal. It's not about right or wrong, but the fact that his very existence is a danger to all those around him.

IMO, when you do things like these, the moment you point a weapon at the innocent without provocation, you accept everything and anything that will happen to you, including forfeiture of one's life.

[Mavfin]

This incident is a perfect example of why I'm a Communist, because the Capitalist system breeds horrible tragedies such as this one.

Oh, and Stalin didn't kill millions in the name of Communism, however false it may have been? Not to mention all the people who simply disappeared w/o a voice or a trial of any kind. Stupidity and murder are not limited to one ideology, whatever its name may be.

(On this guy in Norway, I do agree with you that 20 years or whatever is a travesty, btw.)

[FireIceTalon]

This incident is a perfect example of why I'm a Communist, because the Capitalist system breeds horrible tragedies such as this one.

Oh, and Stalin didn't kill millions in the name of Communism, however false it may have been? Not to mention all the people who simply disappeared w/o a voice or a trial of any kind. Stupidity and murder are not limited to one ideology, whatever its name may be.

(On this guy in Norway, I do agree with you that 20 years or whatever is a travesty, btw.)

Typical and predictable anti-Communist rhetoric that just parrots the propaganda of the last 60 years or so. But it lacks critical thinking or merit, for the simple fact it isn't correct - as most propaganda in general isnt. You even discredited the context of your own post when you admitted it was "false"

1. SU was never even Socialist, let alone Communist. Well, it may have been Socialist for a very short period of time under Lenin, but certainly not under Stalin. SU under Stalin, if anything, was just another form of Capitalism, except controlled by the State instead of the privatized version we have here. In both cases, the workers do not control the means to production and thus lack self-determination, and in both lead to Fascism or societies with many traits of Fascism.

2. Stalin was a reactionary just like Hitler was, just that the former lacked the racist and eugenics component of the latter. He killed people in the name of his own self-righteousness and insatiable desire for power. It had absolutely nothing to do with Communism, nor Marxism. Some of the biggest opponents to the Stalinist regime, were in fact, Communists. Stalinism ≠ Communism.

3. Communism isn't an ideology. It is a material condition of society and history that has net yet occurred. Nor is it something that people just implement, but is the natural stage of history after Socialism (assuming no counter-revolutions take place and crush the revolution like in the Paris Commune of 1871), which is in itself birthed from the womb of Capitalism's destruction. Marxism, however, is sort of an ideology - although it is more of a system of scientific analysis used to understand and critique the social and economic relationships in class antagonist systems, but primarily Capitalism.

That is your history lesson for the day.

[Ashock]

This incident is a perfect example of why I'm a Communist, because the Capitalist system breeds horrible tragedies such as this one.

Hang on a sec. Are you trying to say that commies don't what.... kill people, or they don't just kill certain groups of people, or what exactly?

[vor_lord]

Hang on a sec. Are you trying to say that commies don't what.... kill people, or they don't just kill certain groups of people, or what exactly?

It's a common defense of an ideologue. Explain any undesirable behavior of an adherent as being outside the proper definition of the ideology.

Christians don't kill people -- if they do, they aren't "true Christians".
Communists don't kill people -- if they do, they aren't "true Communists".
Jedi Knights don't kill people -- if they do, they aren't "true Jedis".

Replace with whatever your ideology is.

[FireIceTalon]

This incident is a perfect example of why I'm a Communist, because the Capitalist system breeds horrible tragedies such as this one.

Hang on a sec. Are you trying to say that commies don't what.... kill people, or they don't just kill certain groups of people, or what exactly?

LOL. You know, this is actually a really good question. Over at revleft.com (radical leftist site I post at), we had a recent discussion there discussing "what happens to Capitalists if we have a successful revolution?" You can read the thread here: http://www.revleft.com/vb/deal-capitalis...ndex2.html

The fate of the Capitalists and other "reactionaries" would be almost entirely dependent on their actions should we have a successful Proletarian Revolution. The consensus was that if they accepted their loss of power and that they were now just like the rest of us, and that ALL world citizens now controlled the means of production, they would be more than welcome to join in society. In fact, most of us agreed that killing them because they were Capitalists before would only confirm the stereotype that Communists are a bunch of murderers and dictators, and wouldn't reflect well on us even if we were victorious. On the other hand, individuals who were counter-revolutionaries or a threat to the Proletariat would be dealt with, though even that wouldn't necessarily mean killing them. If (and being realistic, more a matter of when) we are directly attacked, then yes, we would probably have to kill those who attacked us, to protect OUR class interests and prevent a reversion back to Capitalism, or something even worse like Fascism. But most of us felt that the average "everyday Capitalist (meaning workers who were Capitalist apologists in Capitalism, rather then the people who were materially Capitalist)" would probably be accepting of Socialism once they saw it actually was beneficial to them, and should thus be integrated into Socialist society like anyone else. The only people who would be really losing anything would be the corporate CEO's, politicians, and such, though most of us agreed that even they shouldn't be punished unless they directly tried to undermine the revolution. Some people felt that the worst of the Capitalists should be punished, though generally by having to live like we did for a while rather then killing them. That being said, the Revolution isn't an act of vengeance and therefore shouldn't be its aim or basis. It is an act of JUSTICE and DEMOCRACY for the overwhelming majority of society, and should therefore be treated as such by the Proletarian.

So, the short answer to your question is that it really depends. But if you notice something, almost all these anti-government, pro nationalist/anti multi cultural, militant groups and individuals belong to some radical right-wing faction. You don't see Communists behaving like this, and for as much as we want revolution, it is because we want to END (or at least greatly reduce) things like the very topic of this thread, among much else. You don't see us going around blowing up Goldman & Sachs, Walmarts, or any place where Capitalist exploitation takes place (not yet at least, heh). You do see right wingers, however, blowing up abortion clinics, shooting kids because they fear government is becoming more tolerant of a group of people they dont like, shooting politicians, and just acting a fool in general. The reason is, we understand the source of the worlds problems (the Capitalist system), and right-wingers simply do NOT (especially not the nationalist, militant types). Afterall, it is much easier to blame minorities, the poor, people of another religion, or anyone who is "different" from the prototype person that reactionaries envision ruling society - than it is to blame the shortcomings of the very system they try to uphold (which ironically, is the cause of many of the problems that reactionaries fear).

Yes, in a revolution, people are going to get hurt, and killed. It sucks. But letting this volatile system continue to exist sucks MUCH more, and it has and will continue to kill, impoverish and destroy the dignity of people far more than the temporary violence of a Socialist revolution.

Anywhoo, lets not derail Meat's thread anymore. If you guys want to further discuss this, make another thread and I'll be more than glad to debate there.

---

Hang on a sec. Are you trying to say that commies don't what.... kill people, or they don't just kill certain groups of people, or what exactly?

It's a common defense of an ideologue. Explain any undesirable behavior of an adherent as being outside the proper definition of the ideology.

Christians don't kill people -- if they do, they aren't "true Christians".
Communists don't kill people -- if they do, they aren't "true Communists".
Jedi Knights don't kill people -- if they do, they aren't "true Jedis".

Replace with whatever your ideology is.

The "no true-Scotsman" argument doesn't apply if the original context of something didn't exist or was contradicted. Good try though.

[Zarathustra]

:LINK:

Is this how they do justice in Norway? A man murders 77-people, is found competent to stand trial so clearly knew what he was doing, and gets a mere 21 years, of which the trial judge say he needs to serve at least 10 of those years... 10 freaking years?!? Are you kidding me? And the year he's already been in prison counts as time served...

He was sentenced to the maximum possible term of 21 years and was ordered to serve a minimum of 10 years in prison.

Call me a cynic, but this is not justice. I'm in shock right now that this mass murderer could potentially be out to do the same thing over again in 9-years time. America is not exactly the shining beacon when it comes to laws and justice, but there has got to be something wrong with the Norwegian justice system if that man doesn't serve the rest of his life in prison! I’m actually appalled at this situation; no, more in shock. Even the UN has stricter laws against Nazi’s when caught, and the UN considers itself very humanitarian by modest standards. Well there we go; I already invoked the first law of Godwin, so I guess I should finish this off by saying I’m sure some of those Nazi’s were guilty as sin, but a few of them were merely guilty by association, yet their sentences are far more severe then someone who actually carried out a mass murder with his own hands… I don’t even know what to say.

He won't get out. Under Norwegian law, he's being held as a danger to society and can be held as long as they deem he is still a threat. Shock-seeking headlines will read "as little as 10 years!" the the reality is that he's there for life.

[Ashock]

This incident is a perfect example of why I'm a Communist, because the Capitalist system breeds horrible tragedies such as this one.

Hang on a sec. Are you trying to say that commies don't what.... kill people, or they don't just kill certain groups of people, or what exactly?

LOL. You know, this is actually a really good question. Over at revleft.com (radical leftist site I post at), we had a recent discussion there discussing "what happens to Capitalists if we have a successful revolution?" You can read the thread here: http://www.revleft.com/vb/deal-capitalis...ndex2.html

The fate of the Capitalists and other "reactionaries" would be almost entirely dependent on their actions should we have a successful Proletarian Revolution. The consensus was that if they accepted their loss of power and that they were now just like the rest of us, and that ALL world citizens now controlled the means of production, they would be more than welcome to join in society. In fact, most of us agreed that killing them because they were Capitalists before would only confirm the stereotype that Communists are a bunch of murderers and dictators, and wouldn't reflect well on us even if we were victorious. On the other hand, individuals who were counter-revolutionaries or a threat to the Proletariat would be dealt with, though even that wouldn't necessarily mean killing them. If (and being realistic, more a matter of when) we are directly attacked, then yes, we would probably have to kill those who attacked us, to protect OUR class interests and prevent a reversion back to Capitalism, or something even worse like Fascism. But most of us felt that the average "everyday Capitalist (meaning workers who were Capitalist apologists in Capitalism, rather then the people who were materially Capitalist)" would probably be accepting of Socialism once they saw it actually was beneficial to them, and should thus be integrated into Socialist society like anyone else. The only people who would be really losing anything would be the corporate CEO's, politicians, and such, though most of us agreed that even they shouldn't be punished unless they directly tried to undermine the revolution. Some people felt that the worst of the Capitalists should be punished, though generally by having to live like we did for a while rather then killing them. That being said, the Revolution isn't an act of vengeance and therefore shouldn't be its aim or basis. It is an act of JUSTICE and DEMOCRACY for the overwhelming majority of society, and should therefore be treated as such by the Proletarian.

So, the short answer to your question is that it really depends. But if you notice something, almost all these anti-government, pro nationalist/anti multi cultural, militant groups and individuals belong to some radical right-wing faction. You don't see Communists behaving like this, and for as much as we want revolution, it is because we want to END (or at least greatly reduce) things like the very topic of this thread, among much else. You don't see us going around blowing up abortion clinics, shooting kids because we fear our government is becoming more tolerant of a group of people we dont like, shooting politicians and CEO's (as much as we hate them), and just acting a fool in general. The reason is, we understand the source of the worlds problems (the Capitalist system), and right-wingers simply do NOT (especially not the nationalist, militant types). Afterall, it is much easier to blame minorities, the poor, people of another religion, or anyone who is "different" from the prototype person that reactionaries envision ruling society - than it is to blame the shortcomings of the very system they try to uphold (which ironically, is the cause of many of the problems that reactionaries fear).

Yes, in a revolution, people are going to get hurt, and killed. It sucks. But letting this volatile system continue to exist sucks MUCH more, and it has and will continue to kill, impoverish and destroy the dignity of people far more than the temporary violence of a Socialist revolution.

---

Hang on a sec. Are you trying to say that commies don't what.... kill people, or they don't just kill certain groups of people, or what exactly?

It's a common defense of an ideologue. Explain any undesirable behavior of an adherent as being outside the proper definition of the ideology.

Christians don't kill people -- if they do, they aren't "true Christians".
Communists don't kill people -- if they do, they aren't "true Communists".
Jedi Knights don't kill people -- if they do, they aren't "true Jedis".

Replace with whatever your ideology is.

The "no true-Scotsman" argument doesn't apply if the original context of something didn't exist or was contradicted. Good try though.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einsten.

[FireIceTalon]

This incident is a perfect example of why I'm a Communist, because the Capitalist system breeds horrible tragedies such as this one.

Hang on a sec. Are you trying to say that commies don't what.... kill people, or they don't just kill certain groups of people, or what exactly?

LOL. You know, this is actually a really good question. Over at revleft.com (radical leftist site I post at), we had a recent discussion there discussing "what happens to Capitalists if we have a successful revolution?" You can read the thread here: http://www.revleft.com/vb/deal-capitalis...ndex2.html

The fate of the Capitalists and other "reactionaries" would be almost entirely dependent on their actions should we have a successful Proletarian Revolution. The consensus was that if they accepted their loss of power and that they were now just like the rest of us, and that ALL world citizens now controlled the means of production, they would be more than welcome to join in society. In fact, most of us agreed that killing them because they were Capitalists before would only confirm the stereotype that Communists are a bunch of murderers and dictators, and wouldn't reflect well on us even if we were victorious. On the other hand, individuals who were counter-revolutionaries or a threat to the Proletariat would be dealt with, though even that wouldn't necessarily mean killing them. If (and being realistic, more a matter of when) we are directly attacked, then yes, we would probably have to kill those who attacked us, to protect OUR class interests and prevent a reversion back to Capitalism, or something even worse like Fascism. But most of us felt that the average "everyday Capitalist (meaning workers who were Capitalist apologists in Capitalism, rather then the people who were materially Capitalist)" would probably be accepting of Socialism once they saw it actually was beneficial to them, and should thus be integrated into Socialist society like anyone else. The only people who would be really losing anything would be the corporate CEO's, politicians, and such, though most of us agreed that even they shouldn't be punished unless they directly tried to undermine the revolution. Some people felt that the worst of the Capitalists should be punished, though generally by having to live like we did for a while rather then killing them. That being said, the Revolution isn't an act of vengeance and therefore shouldn't be its aim or basis. It is an act of JUSTICE and DEMOCRACY for the overwhelming majority of society, and should therefore be treated as such by the Proletarian.

So, the short answer to your question is that it really depends. But if you notice something, almost all these anti-government, pro nationalist/anti multi cultural, militant groups and individuals belong to some radical right-wing faction. You don't see Communists behaving like this, and for as much as we want revolution, it is because we want to END (or at least greatly reduce) things like the very topic of this thread, among much else. You don't see us going around blowing up abortion clinics, shooting kids because we fear our government is becoming more tolerant of a group of people we dont like, shooting politicians and CEO's (as much as we hate them), and just acting a fool in general. The reason is, we understand the source of the worlds problems (the Capitalist system), and right-wingers simply do NOT (especially not the nationalist, militant types). Afterall, it is much easier to blame minorities, the poor, people of another religion, or anyone who is "different" from the prototype person that reactionaries envision ruling society - than it is to blame the shortcomings of the very system they try to uphold (which ironically, is the cause of many of the problems that reactionaries fear).

Yes, in a revolution, people are going to get hurt, and killed. It sucks. But letting this volatile system continue to exist sucks MUCH more, and it has and will continue to kill, impoverish and destroy the dignity of people far more than the temporary violence of a Socialist revolution.

---

Hang on a sec. Are you trying to say that commies don't what.... kill people, or they don't just kill certain groups of people, or what exactly?

It's a common defense of an ideologue. Explain any undesirable behavior of an adherent as being outside the proper definition of the ideology.

Christians don't kill people -- if they do, they aren't "true Christians".
Communists don't kill people -- if they do, they aren't "true Communists".
Jedi Knights don't kill people -- if they do, they aren't "true Jedis".

Replace with whatever your ideology is.

The "no true-Scotsman" argument doesn't apply if the original context of something didn't exist or was contradicted. Good try though.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einsten.

Yea, Capitalists should understand that better than anyone else

and Einstein, btw, was a Socialist

LOL.

[kandrathe]

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einsten.

I remember this philosophy FIT described was the same logic the Bolsheviks professed prior to coming to power.

After they got in power the infighting began, but they labelled them, and had the secret police keep an eye on them. Then, they arrested them for any slight violation, and sent them off to re-education camps, which were administered by Gulag. After a while, they just didn't pretend anymore and shot them outright. It's less of a burden on the state, and more humane than starving them to death. (see NKVD Order No. 00447).

Individual liberty is antithetical to communism. Once you surrender your power, life, and property to the state. They are free to do with it as they please. Why would it surprise us from a system where you own nothing, not even your own your life.

[Ashock]

Yea, Capitalists should understand that better than anyone else

and Einstein, btw, was a Socialist

LOL.

*Sigh* Cocaine is a powerful drug.

[FireIceTalon]

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einsten.

I remember this philosophy FIT described was the same logic the Bolsheviks professed prior to coming to power.

After they got in power the infighting began, but they labelled them, and had the secret police keep an eye on them. Then, they arrested them for any slight violation, and sent them off to re-education camps, which were administered by Gulag. After a while, they just didn't pretend anymore and shot them outright. It's less of a burden on the state, and more humane than starving them to death. (see NKVD Order No. 00447).

Individual liberty is antithetical to communism. Once you surrender your power, life, and property to the state. They are free to do with it as they please. Why would it surprise us from a system where you own nothing, not even your own your life.

Except there is one little minor detail you forgot (or conveniently omitted): there is no State in a Communist society.

You just described the life of the Proletarian under Capitalism almost perfectly, however. Communism isn't antithetical to individual liberty, it's antithetical to Bourgeois Democracy, where a small group of people who dont work for a living own everything, and where huge amount of people who break their backs to feed their rulers and drive the imperialist war-machine to expand capital (and get only enough in return to survive, so they can be a wage slave another day, since afterall, a dead worker is of no use to a Capitalist).

And the living standard and conditions of the Proletarian were higher under Lenin than they were under the Tsar Nicholas II, this is long proven as FACT. Much in the same way Cubans have a much higher standard of living under Castro, than they did Batista. And btw, Kandrathe, the USA has more people in prison (almost two thirds of which are minorities, surprise surprise) per capita than Cuba EVER did, or the SU under Lenin and post-Stalin (under Stalin they were higher than the USA's currently are, though in that case only slightly). Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

---

Yea, Capitalists should understand that better than anyone else

and Einstein, btw, was a Socialist

LOL.

*Sigh* Cocaine is a powerful drug.

I don't do cocaine. But regardless, this retort is basically a concession that either I am right, or you have no legitimate argument other than logical fallacies, propaganda, and sarcastic remarks to try and back up your weakly constructed, and presumptuous claims. Or more likely, both.

[Ashock]

I don't do cocaine. But regardless, this retort is basically a concession either I am right, or you have no legitimate argument other than logical fallacies and sarcastic remarks to try and back up your weakly constructed, and presumptuous claims. Or more likely, both.

Let me be honest here. You, my fellow Diablo 3 disliker (I just made that term up, like it?), are in need of serious life therapy. As such, I can't really argue with you, just as I do not argue with small children, drunks, the very old or the mentally insane.

Just think about this. Just the thought that you are posting what you posting without being killed, and having everyone you know and hold dear killed, means you know jack about communism.

Enjoy your delusions, it is easier that way. I'm done with this.

ps. Oh sure, you can claim that as I'm backing out of this discussion, means I have no valid argument.
I don't really care.

pps. Any of the admins feel that I am making a personal attack with my initial comment? I also don't care.

ppps. Time to go home. This, I do care about.

[FireIceTalon]

I don't do cocaine. But regardless, this retort is basically a concession either I am right, or you have no legitimate argument other than logical fallacies and sarcastic remarks to try and back up your weakly constructed, and presumptuous claims. Or more likely, both.

Let me be honest here. You, my fellow Diablo 3 disliker (I just made that term up, like it?), are in need of serious life therapy. As such, I can't really argue with you, just as I do not argue with small children, drunks, the very old or the mentally insane.

Just think about this. Just the thought that you are posting what you posting without being killed, and having everyone you know and hold dear killed, means you know jack about communism.

Enjoy your delusions, it is easier that way. I'm done with this.

ps. Oh sure, you can claim that as I'm backing out of this discussion, means I have no valid argument.
I don't really care.

pps. Any of the admins feel that I am making a personal attack with my initial comment? I also don't care.

ppps. Time to go home. This, I do care about.

So you are a psychologist now? It is you who is delusional

It is probably safe to say that most of us need or have needed some sort of therapy for some reason or another at some point in time, so what is your point? I think this is just more your short-sighted rhetoric. Be as it may, I don't think I need therapy at this time. I think you just need to stop watching Faux News so much and stop believing everything the little propaganda machine spits your way. But then again, to hell with thinking critically right? Ignorance is bliss.

My knowledge of Communism has no relationship to the fact I am or can post my thoughts about it without being killed, or to the well being of those I hold dear. Your argument is a complete red-herring. And not to sound arrogant, but I know and understand more about Communism and the origin of radical leftist thought than you and everyone else who posts on this forum COMBINED. Fact.

And admins, I don't care if his initial comment is a personal attack against me either. That's just a further sign that he is defeated and knows I will DESTROY him in any intellectual or sociological debate. The first person who has to resort to ad-hominem attacks in a debate, loses that debate by default. Id give him some credit though if he showed his face in this thread again, after the ass-whooping I just gave him.

[kandrathe]

You just described the life of the Proletarian under Capitalism almost perfectly, however. Communism isn't antithetical to individual liberty, it's antithetical to Bourgeois Democracy, where a small group of people who dont work for a living own everything, and where huge amount of people who break their backs to feed their rulers and drive the imperialist war-machine to expand capital (and get only enough in return to survive, so they can be a wage slave another day, since afterall, a dead worker is of no use to a Capitalist).

By what force, if not through the mechanism of a government, do you wrest the wealth from those who have it to spread "equally" to the poor broken backed proletariat? Where has this fantasy every revealed itself in reality?