DIII, worth the time?

[Taem]

I frequent the Median XL community (best mod for DII ever made), and have seen a HUGE influx of new players since DIII was released. Most of these players have stated how disgusted they were with D3 and have come back to D2 - or more specifically, to Median XL after hearing about it from D3 forums.

Humm. So, my son, whom is now working, says he want's to get D3 because some of his friends got it and would like me to get it also so I could play with them, but when I ask my son what his friends think of the game, he says they aren't too impressed... So this leads me to do a little bit of research and I stumble upon a few really bad reviews such as this one:

Diablo III is the Worst Game Ever Made

I have played Diablo III for dozens of hours. I have beaten the normal difficulty level with one of my “Heroes,” and I have made solid progress with a variety of characters representing each class. I came to the new sequel already a fan. I played through and beat Diablo II perhaps a dozen times, at nearly every difficulty level with every type of character. But now I’m done. I’m moving on. It finally hit me: Diablo III is the worst game I’ve ever played, for hours and hours and hours.

There is a moment playing Diablo games when it hits you. Why am I still playing? It’s a tough question to wrestle with, since this is the same question that could ruin all video games for you. What’s the point? So, I started to think about my favorite games. Some games have a great story line. You can make different choices each time, and affect the outcome, subtly or drastically. Some games are interspersed with amazing set pieces so massive in scale that you cannot wait to reach them. Some games offer challenging puzzles, with multiple ways to solve them, so you can constantly replay to try each permutation.

Most of all, though, the best games are simply fun to play. Video games run with the idea that “half the fun is getting there.” In the best games, that’s almost all of the fun. There are very few games that I replay continually just to see the ending. The actual gameplay has to be very fun. In fact, the gameplay has to be just as fun when you lose as when you win. I have a maxim of gaming that you should never expect to complete a gaming task once. Even the most difficult feat in gaming will often be repeated. So, it must be fun. Losing has to be almost as enjoyable as winning.

Diablo is simply no fun. The gameplay is beyond repetitive. It’s inane. It’s completely lifeless. It is mouse clicking with a few keyboard shortcuts thrown in. The entire game boils down to: look at that monster, I’m going to click on it until it’s dead. There is very little skill, or even thought involved in playing the game. There are no puzzles to solve, no riddles, no mysteries. There is a plot, but it is almost entirely revealed in high-quality cut scene movies between the action. Almost nothing you do in the game feels like it is contributing to the storyline.

It used to be that Diablo was about collecting cool weapons and leveling-up your character. You play more and you gain more awesome toys and cool abilities. To a small extent that is still true. But Blizzard has made serious mistakes in the game design and, at the risk of sounding cynical, it seems that much of the problem comes from the new auction house. Users can now buy and sell items in the game with real money. Blizzard takes a huge cut, of course, but you’re still making money from playing the game.

"Blizzard has strewn its virtual world with tons of virtual garbage"
However, look where this has left the game experience. Items are now worth money, which means that Blizzard needs to create an entire level of items that is at once nearly-unobtainable and also very valuable. This pushes down the value of almost all other items in the game. Any item that is not ‘magical,’ which is to say the overwhelming bulk of the items you find, is completely worthless to the player. These items do not add to the gameplay at all, and you can’t sell them. Blizzard has strewn its virtual world with tons of virtual garbage.

Characters gain new abilities as they gain experience, but often these seem like a step backwards. I get new powers that add or augment my existing abilities, but these are often less interesting, or less powerful, than the powers I already had. The special effects look cool, but the action on screen can be jumbled and confusing at times. So, no matter how cool it looks, you are essentially just clicking on a massive pile of bad guys, and repeating this simple act until they all stop moving.

So, Diablo III has some very fundamental flaws, but it is the little things that bother me even more. Some of these are endemic to the hack-and-slash dungeon crawler genre, but the genre, and gaming in general, has grown up significantly in the 11 years since Diablo II was released. While competitors are creating deep virtual worlds and immersive environments, Blizzard has taken the laziest route possible with Diablo III.

Here are some of my favorite examples. In the game, you might have to kill a swarm of bugs. That swarm acts like one single enemy, but looks like a swarm. So, you just click your mouse on it, and your character starts shooting at flies with a crossbow. Some of these flies are so scary your character will run away from them, even though they look like all the other flies, and you wouldn’t know they strike such fear in the hearts of men unless you read the description, which says simply “nightmarish.” Okay, fine, your character kills these nightmarish flies and is rewarded with . . . a suit of armor? What?! Seriously, I’m supposed to believe that this swarm of flies was carrying a suit of armor? What the heck were flies doing with armor? And 80 gold coins? Where did they keep them? I suppose flies in Diablo III have pockets.

There are a few non-player characters, and you are forced to listen to the same repetitive dialogue from them over and over again. It has nothing to do with the plot or the action on screen. You could be fighting a nest of giant spiders, and the Enchantress character will ask if you think one of the boy characters likes her. You could be literally descending into the depths of Hell, and the Scoundrel character might talk about the women he’s taken advantage of. It’s boring and nonsensical, and worst of all, it’s repetitive. Each character has maybe a dozen lines or so that they spew at the weirdest moments, but over the course of a 20 – 30 hour game, you’ll hear these lines over and over again. And you can’t kill these characters. Trust me, I’ve tried.

Diablo III is simply an example of the laziest form of game design. It is as though Blizzard tried to imagine the least effort they could put into improving Diablo II while still calling this a new game, and then cut out half of those ideas. Blizzard has created a world that will make you feel worthless for revisiting. Why am I still playing? I’m not. I’m done.

Others have posted this one, which I won't quote.

The issue for me is in order for me to play D3, I'm going to have to improve my rig because I never did - long story short, my wife got a new laptop and I got her old computer instead of getting a new gaming rig. On top of this, $60 seems a bit pricey to me to pay for a video game. I know that's the new norm, but recently, I get just as much, if not more enjoyment out of indie games for $10 then from $60 games, which all seem to follow the same creative format. And honestly, after a few hours into most $60 games, I start to get extremely bored by the highly predictable AI of NPC's and instead of feeling lost in the game, I feel like I'm playing a sandboxed simulator.

So my question to you lurkers who have played and still play D3, do you feel it's worth the $60, and moreover, do you still enjoy it, and if so, more than MXL (if you have played it)? With all the bad reviews, I just can't see myself spending all this money on a new gaming rig, D3 itself, only to be disappointed I wasted my money on an obvious inferior product with low replay value. The fact that Bolty put D3 up prominently on the forums the way he did says to me there most be something to it. I respect Lurkers opinions, so I really must know what the opinions are out there.

[Jester]

I've found it to be a perfectly fine dungeon crawl, and I don't regret buying it. If you picked it up, I doubt you would either.

I was never the extreme fan of D1/D2 that most people around here were, but I played my fair share of both. Yes, the game is a lot of clicking, and centers around getting shinier and shinier loot. This is also what the first two games were about, so if you liked them, it's tough to say you dislike D3 on that basis.

Saying it's the worst game ever made is the kind of stupid hyperbole that makes my sheath retract and my talons ooze. Even on the worst interpretation, it's well above average. That review above is almost disturbingly vapid - have they actually isolated a single legitimate complaint that does not equally apply to the first two games? I couldn't find one.

-Jester

Disclaimer: I'm lv. 52 with a wizard, working my way through Act 1 Hell. Consider my opinion accordingly.

[FoxBat]

Saying it's the worst game ever made is the kind of stupid hyperbole that makes my sheath retract and my talons ooze. Even on the worst interpretation, it's well above average. That review above is almost disturbingly vapid - have they actually isolated a single legitimate complaint that does not equally apply to the first two games? I couldn't find one.

I'm kinda shocked the OP would come here for an opinion if that piece of garbage is supposed to be considered a review worth posting.

The vast majority of players enjoy the game until sometime in late hell/early inferno, meaning you can pretty much ignore that wall of text. Many of them develop problems after that point when you're up against wildly varying difficulty spikes and a cycle of farming loot to progress somewhat akin to WoW raids, without hardly any of the fun item variety introduced in LoD. I'd say the average burnout time is 200 hours. You can decide whether that's worth your money or not.

[Wessonality]

Summary of complaints:
1) It's all about the loot (even more than D1 and D2)
2) The loot is not very interesting.

Praises:
Very smooth and well executed. Looks pretty.

Think of it as a "casual game" and you would give it 10/10 stars. I just like playing Normal with some severe limitations (e.g. few or no magic items.) In my opinion, it's like a really good casual game.

Empathizing with some of the disaffected Lurkers, I feel that they WANTED to get really really into it, but there's no deep "there" there to get into.

[LochnarITB]

I continue to have fun with it, and will for some time and am glad to have it (even though I ended up messing up and essentially paying far more than $60 for it ). But, some people might call me a simpleton too.

Be careful with reviews you read. I find that the most negative reviews you will find ring mostly of disappointment. The coming of D3 was elevated onto such a pedestal by many that any game living up to such expectations would have to be the best game. Ever! Also, much of the pain folks are expressing involves the fourth difficulty, Inferno. Blizzard has basically stated that this was tacked on to satisfy players that were worried about the game being too easy and that there was little testing.

Now, would I buy a new computer for it, or any game for that matter, no. Been there, done that. I bought my current laptop (beautiful machine, no regrets) as WoW got slower and slower and I couldn't deal anymore but I was really making an excuse to replace a 3 year old laptop (ancient in laptop years). However, if running D3 is the last straw for an older machine, screaming to be retired, and if you feel that taking 5 classes through 3 difficulties, ignoring Inferno, will give you enough bang for your buck, making your son happy in the deal, go for it.

[Hammerskjold]

On top of this, $60 seems a bit pricey to me to pay for a video game. I know that's the new norm,

I wonder about that. In my 8 bit Sega Master System days, a retail new game cartridge was about that price. The NES games might be slightly cheaper at the time, but not drastically so.

It seems to me 60$ or so have been the norm for quite a while now.


Re: D3, I agree with Jester's assesment of that review, and if you replace the word D3 with D2\D1, or even almost any ARPG title, you'd have the same result. That's not a compliment to the writer.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and suggest if you have a net\gaming cafe near your area with D3 on it's machines, try it there first.

Just don't be like this guy and remember to take breaks, and stretch those legs to prevent blood clots.

http://www.mobilenapps.com/articles/3169...-death.htm

I remember my 'counterstrike' and 'Team Fortress' days\nights, and thank god I had smoke breaks back then. Yes, I guess I could say smoking saved my life back then!*

*I keed I keed.

[kandrathe]

So this leads me to do a little bit of research and I stumble upon a few really bad reviews such as...

The writers of such reviews should be locked in a room and only fed if they rack up many hours playing -- Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City.

[Ashock]

As a standalone game, it is honestly ok. No better or worse than other games of it's genre, with a few exceptions.

As a sequel to Diablo 1 and Diablo 2, it is like an illegitimate second cousin... from the mother-in-law's side. If this was not called D3, you'd hear things like "An ok Diablo clone" in it's reviews. It is a fitting example as to how Blizzard has lowered it's standards, and how instead of being elevated above other gaming companies, it is now just another large gaming company, albeit an insanely successful one. If things continue on this path, that last part will go away too.

[Bolty]

If this was not called D3, you'd hear things like "An ok Diablo clone" in it's reviews.

This pretty much sums it up. If it wasn't called "Diablo III" and wasn't made by a company called "Blizzard," it would just be considered a cute Diablo clone and people would have moved on.

It's fun to play, worth buying (for $60? I don't know, but I'd never pay $60 for a game anyway so that's just me) for a great coop experience, but don't expect it to stick around in your gaming experiences for a long stretch like D1 or D2 may have. Its flaws have been described in endless thousands of reviews on the Internet, so I don't really feel any need to repeat them.

Also, you need to immediately reject any review of a game that actually says "Worst game ever made" in it. Come on.

[Yricyn]

There is no doubt that Blizzard missed the mark on several key elements of the game, but let me give you an alternate view of the game. I think I am well suited to do this because I have a sort of split personality about Diablo 3, on the one hand I love it, and on the other hand I see the validity of many of the common complaints lodged against it. I want to point out the good and the bad as a list of 'features', note you may see some features in both lists.

Ways in which Blizzard improved on Diablo 2 (in my opinion):
The shared stash - Massive improvement from Diablo 2 in terms of ease of use. Additional benefits include, less game creation for 'muling' less danger of losing items which formerly were commonly dropped on the ground in order to change items. There is no offline mode so use of tools like ATMA would not be possible.

Fun Heroes - I find the 4 new and 1 recycled hero classes to be interesting and fun. Each has a number of unique skills with visually stunning graphical effects attached to them. The addition of gender as a choice adds a bit of spice. I play all male characters in softcore and female characters in hardcore. They say the same things and have generally the same personalities, but interactions with NPCs are unique based on gender and at least mildly humorous.

Same simple Interface- Diablo 3 expands the UI from 2 active skills and 4 potion slots, plus hotkeys to switch skills to 6 active skills and 1 potion hotkey. Its not an overwhelming number of keybinds to remember. One of the things that finally drove me out of the MMO fan base was the need to keybind 15-20 keys in order to be successful. Diablo3 requires 5 keybinds and 2 mouse buttons to be fully functional. I find it perfect to be honest.

Fun Combat - Maybe its a class based thing.. I don't know. I have played primarily a Monk post beta, and I find the combat very engaging. Sure its click to kill. But at least in my playstyle, character and spec its Left Click to kill, 1 to heal, 2 to retreat, 3 apply AOE dot, 4 to apply extra damage debuff, Right Click to aggro dump and do extra damage if and only if I have the focus and if dumping agro will not adversely effect my groupmates. I find the interaction of the defensive skills, the cooldown timers, and the "don't stand in the fire" to be the perfect amount of complexity to keep me engaged without being overwhelmed.

Boss Mods - Despite rumor to the contrary, (and in fairness some combinations do suck) this is the bread and butter of the current game. Each inferno boss pack is a uniquely different and challenging encounter. Many of the mods are completely original, most are well developed with original artwork, and I also enjoy that I can typically tell whats going on by watching the video effects on the screen, not by trying to read the words under the Boss name.

Multiplayer enabled, Single Player Game- This is why I am addicted to Diablo. I like the MMO/ARPG type games, I like to play with my wife and 1 or two friends, I want access to the entire game, and I don't want to have to organize 25-40 people to have access to the entire game. Diablo offers this. Its outstanding to me that I can beat the game single player. Then I can play with my wife and the difficulty scales accordingly.

Content - First playthrough on Normal will take an average player 20 - 25 hours. Playing through nightmare and hell is probably up to 80-100 hours. I've got 300 hours played (200 in my monk) and I've not yet completed Inferno. I feel like I got enough product for my money. I'd take more if it was freely given, but I do not feel gipped on content.

Always Online Requirement & Auction Halls- I understand peoples frustrations with both of these items, but I side with Blizzard on them. The cheating in D2 sucked. The black markets that existed were dangerous, and also made public games unfun. These two elements of Diablo 3 are Blizzards best attempts to combat these issues. Are they flawless, absolutely not, are they better than the environment that existed in Battle.Net and Open Battle.Net for Diablo 2, in my opinion, a resounding yes. In fact I've made back my purchase price for the game by selling items in the RMAH.

Cutscenes- The cutscenes and animation in the series continue to be stellar for the times. Blizzard sets the mark with its realtime anitmated shorts. I love them.

Things off the Mark in Diablo 3
The Always online Requirement & Auction Halls- Funny I know. Still the always online DRM prevents the modding community which I personally never participated in, but I understand was a huge part of what made Diablo so great. Losing this capability is a serious dent in the franchise. Addtionally the RMAH has contributed to what I think is a blatant balancing issue. Inferno is arbitrarilly more difficult than needs be, in order to encourage use of the RMAH. This is short sighted and too bad, because I think people would have used the RMAH anyway.

Story and the death of Deckard Cain- theres no getting around the fact that Deckards death is poorly handled. The story in its entirety is a bit lame to be honest. Although, I found myself on the first playthrough wanting to know what would happen next.

Loot quality and itemization- Getting good loot is much harder that in previous Diablo iterations. And the problem with Legendaries being boring and usually useless is really sad for the entire franchise. I understand the thought process that lead to the issue, but its clearly a mistake and one they have promised to rectify. Addtionally white items have 0 relevance in the game. "Enhancing the loot explosion" is silly justification. The Charsi quest and the Larzuk quest in diablo 2 made normal items relevant. Diablo 3 needs a similar functionality.

Max Character Lvl 60- I get the idea. Don't let characters level beyond the level range of the monsters. Keep the game challenging. Its at odds with the heart of the franchise. Honestly I can live with this one, but many people cant.

Gear checks, Enrage timers, hit detection- Simply put, this isnt World of Warcraft. Make this stuff go away. Bring back the Diablo a legion of fans loved.

Anyway that summarizes my view of the game. I honestly feel its $60 well spent, even if you don't walk away with the "Best Game EVAR!" feeling.

[Quark]

Also, you need to immediately reject any review of a game that actually says "Worst game ever made" in it. Come on.

*Cough*

http://www.gamespot.com/video/919220/608...deo-review

*Cough*

[Taem]

Thank's so much for the replies guys; I knew I could count on your candid advice. I'd have to say that I'm more inclined to pass D3 up this go-round for various reasons. I suppose I already came into this post with a jaded outlook, but so far, some of the things people mentioned here only reinforced what I felt about the game, such as it being a casual hack-n-slash instead of something so addictive you can never put down. To upgrade my computer for "this" game, well, let me just say I will wait until something else comes along. As for my son, he's free to play without me on his kick-ass computer :jelous-face: .

As for the quoted review, of course a lot of it just hyperbolic tripe, but my point was actually that reviews like that one were the norm when looking up reviews for Diablo 3, and a lot of the points against the game were similar.

Anyways, thanks again guys. I'll be sure to pick this game up in the bargain bin in like 5-years.

[Lissa]

Let's not forget the newest problem with Diablo 3 (which is an old problem, but now it's worse than it ever was before):

Duping

With the fact that Blizzard is now involving real money, this is a major problem.

[swirly]

As for my son, he's free to play without me on his kick-ass computer :jelous-face: .

Just a thought, but if your son is going to get the game then couldn't you try it on his computer for a bit? That way you would have some personal experience with the game to better judge how to weigh it against upgrading your computer. I doubt it would change your mind, but it just seems odd to me to have the game in house and yet judge it based off other people's opinions.

[FireIceTalon]

Worst game ever made is over-the-top - there have been plenty of worse games made than D3. It is, however, one of the most disappointing games in a very long time. If you have a friend that has it, I would suggest playing his for a bit and making a judgement from there.

Basically, normal-hell is fine, though by the 4th toon' you are a bit worn out - it lacks the randomness and replay value of the first two games. Inferno and the AH are a COMPLETE disaster. If you just want to play to kill some time here and there, the game is perfectly fine. But if you are a more serious gamer and really plan to invest some time into it in the long run, you would be better off to avoid it - the end game is completely broken, and there is little hope it will ever be fixed to how it should be.

[Archon_Wing]

It's worth it if you have friends to play with, and they won't bail on you.

If you're playing by yourself and you're not the type to frequent public games, I wouldn't bother.

[FireIceTalon]

Even then, you are punished for playing co op as well since monsters get an extra 100% health per player that joins.

[Archon_Wing]

Diablo 2 was like that too, wasn't it?

[Treesh]

I wish I would have stayed just playing hardcore characters instead of pushing into inferno with my favorite one so I could see what all the fuss was about before it got nerfed. There are two big factors that made me stop playing it after two months. One, you cap while you're still finishing hell difficulty and the only way to progress your character(s) is through gear so you spend a lot of time doing something not very rewarding and doesn't feel like you're making any progress either. Two, putting all the annoying AI mobs in the same act just makes me not want to take any of my characters through Act 2 again, hardcore or not. I get very tired of having so many mobs that have some part of the AI where you can't hurt them, ie underground, flying to an area inaccessible to players, turning invisible. It's definitely worth picking up in a bargain bin eventually, but it's not worth shelling out the $60 for it especially if you have to upgrade the computer to run it too.

Edit: Minor note for the one I listed as the first one that bugged me. I didn't farm in either D1 or D2 because I don't enjoy farming. I didn't enjoy farming in WoW either and would generally only do so if a guildie mentioned something specific they were trying to get but didn't have time or whatever. If you did farm in D1 and D2, you'll probably be fine with farming inferno. I just know I wasn't.

[ViralSpiral]

Yeah, but Diablo II also upped loot drops for multiple players. I've never seen any indication of that in D3.

My advice, pre-order Torchlight II for $20 on Steam. It's due out in September. You get Torchlight I for free in the mean time. Google or I can direct you to some fun mods and you get two games for essentially $10 each, and they'll play a lot more like the parts of DII we liked than DIII will unless they do some serious patching to it.

But then I'm a bitter misanthropic hermit, so yeah. I've also put in nearly as much time in TLI in two weeks as I did DIII in a month, and I'm not even done with TLI yet, much less bored and quitting.