So it appears D1 is being laid to rest

[MachX]

First Blizzard took it out of the battle chest (and didn't lower the price) and now it seems they no longer offer it as an electronic download, either. Or at least it's hard to find without registering and all that nonsense. Hey, blizz, how about making it freeware like EA did with the first two command and conquer games? Or I think Doom is freeware too for the modding community. It would be really cool if Blizz released it that way to celebrate the coming of D3.

[FireIceTalon]

Thats cause Blizz is a corporation that only cares about making a profit, everything else be damned. Capitalism for the loss.

[Nystul]

Most of the old Id games are open source, but not freeware. You can look through the source code and write your own game engine or other cool stuff, but the data needed to play the game (maps, models, etc.) are still under copyright and the games are still being sold.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Thats cause Blizz is a corporation that only cares about making a profit, everything else be damned. Capitalism for the loss.

That's wrong on two levels.

The first is the implication that corporations should not put making a profit high, if not first, on their list of priorities. No profit, no corporation, no product. Before the bucks rolled in, offices were needed, designers and programmers got paid, lights, water, garbage all drained money. The reason these people could put out games is that somebody put up the funds in a gamble that they'd get a decent return on their investment. Very often such a gamble went bust, so the successes need to make up for the failures or the industry shuts down.

So, from that standpoint, your statement is childish.

The second is that Blizzard supported D1 and D2 well past when the sales of the games justified such support. Now, the quality of that support, especially in D1 and especially considering some of the input from the people on this and other communities, can be questioned. But that is not, as you imply, a question of greed. Blizzard went the extra mile, even if that mile might have been (according to some of us) a bit off course.

So, from that standpoint, your statement is ungrateful.

If you feel so strongly that capitalism and the game industry should not mix, then feel free to start a not-for-profit, charitable, donation supported game company of your own. Or stick to the free games.

Bash Blizzard all you want, (personally, I usually call then Buzzard), but for their faults, not for failing to meet your childish expectations.

--Pete

[FireIceTalon]

Hi,

Thats cause Blizz is a corporation that only cares about making a profit, everything else be damned. Capitalism for the loss.

That's wrong on two levels.

The first is the implication that corporations should not put making a profit high, if not first, on their list of priorities. No profit, no corporation, no product. Before the bucks rolled in, offices were needed, designers and programmers got paid, lights, water, garbage all drained money. The reason these people could put out games is that somebody put up the funds in a gamble that they'd get a decent return on their investment. Very often such a gamble went bust, so the successes need to make up for the failures or the industry shuts down.

So, from that standpoint, your statement is childish.

The second is that Blizzard supported D1 and D2 well past when the sales of the games justified such support. Now, the quality of that support, especially in D1 and especially considering some of the input from the people on this and other communities, can be questioned. But that is not, as you imply, a question of greed. Blizzard went the extra mile, even if that mile might have been (according to some of us) a bit off course.

So, from that standpoint, your statement is ungrateful.

If you feel so strongly that capitalism and the game industry should not mix, then feel free to start a not-for-profit, charitable, donation supported game company of your own. Or stick to the free games.

Bash Blizzard all you want, (personally, I usually call then Buzzard), but for their faults, not for failing to meet your childish expectations.

--Pete

Sigh, you missed my point. It's not a matter of capitalism being compatible with the gaming industry, or not. Im not attacking Blizzard directly, but rather capitalism itself. Blizz is just another example in a very long line of examples of the bigger picture here. Sure, they aren't as bad as Walmart and Nike, or the various military weapons contract corporations that our tax dollars go to feed the "war machine" (everything else be damned) in the name of global imperialism and counter-terrorism, but my larger point remains. And yes, I'm a Marxist, and proud. As a matter of fact, to hell with being anything else. If the charges for this are me being childish (or un-American, or un-patriotic or whatever other term the forum trolls wish to label me as) and ungrateful, then damn it, I stand guilty, and with NO shame whatsoever. So no, I'm not wrong.

And please spare me the capitalism folklore crap, ive heard this all a million times before, so sorry, but it won't wash with me. Capitalism, aka economic social darwinism, is arguably the most evil and detrimental system to ever exist in civil society. It's nothing more than an excuse by the wealthy and powerful to exploit those who have less resources or who are less fortunate and to promote social darwinism in other socially constructed aspects be it imperialism, racism, or otherwise; then turn it around and use the folklore that you described to justify its means to an end, regardless of the human suffering, alienation, and exploitation it both creates and manifests. You and the rest of the Tea Baggers may buy into it (no pun intended), but not me. Any system that is used as a means to an end, rather than the end itself, and promotes consumerism, materialism, puts profits above public responsibility, social needs, merit, and integrity is doomed to fail; and one only needs to take a look at the economy the last few years to see this.

[NuurAbSaal]

Graaaah!

/popcorn

take care
Tarabulus

EDIT: Hm, I wouldn't bite, so I guess Pete won't either. Too bad, really

[Tal]

Sigh, you missed my point. It's not a matter of capitalism being compatible with the gaming industry, or not. Im not attacking Blizzard directly, but rather capitalism itself.

Your very words betray your intentions sir.

Thats cause Blizz is a corporation that only cares about making a profit, everything else be damned. Capitalism for the loss.

How else can that statement be interpreted?

You and the rest of the Tea Baggers may buy into it (no pun intended), but not me. Any system that is used as a means to an end, rather than the end itself, and promotes consumerism, materialism, puts profits above public responsibility, social needs, merit, and integrity is doomed to fail; and one only needs to take a look at the economy the last few years to see this.

You're drifting into personal attacks - please adjust your course accordingly.

I'm watching this thread and will take such steps as I feel necessary to ensure a civil discourse.

[FireIceTalon]

Its not intended as a personal attack, but he really needs to pump his brakes. I (and many others) get tired of him prancing around this forum like a Nazi or something. He acts like a know-it-all and that anyone who disagrees is stupid, and it gets old, fast. Calling me childish and ungrateful cause my politics dont agree with his. I say cry me a river, build a bridge, and GET OVER IT! And while he's at it, he should get off his high horse too. Ive talked to a number of people on bnet that dont post here anymore for this very reason. Tell you what, is there an ignore option here, so I can make use of it by not having to read his posts anymore, and we can move on?

**Edit** Found it, done, now we can move on happily ever after

[Tal]

And that's a one day time out for invoking Godwin's Law and attacking Pete again.

[--Pete]

Hi,

This really doesn't belong in the D1 forum, so I've moved my reply to the general discussion forum, where it can die an appropriate death or become a discussion (hopefully useful) about economic systems. And here's a quick link for your convenience:

x

--Pete

[Kal]

First Blizzard took it out of the battle chest (and didn't lower the price) and now it seems they no longer offer it as an electronic download, either. Or at least it's hard to find without registering and all that nonsense. Hey, blizz, how about making it freeware like EA did with the first two command and conquer games? Or I think Doom is freeware too for the modding community. It would be really cool if Blizz released it that way to celebrate the coming of D3.

Yeah, noticed that I couldn't even register my original copy of D1 on my battle.net account, made me realize it doesn't even have an original CD key, oh how times change.

I'd love to see continued support and recognition of D1 from the Blizzard community, but as long as communities like the lurker lounge and the various mod communities continue to exist, it isn't going anywhere, though I agree that it would be nice to see Blizzard support an open source or freeware approach, it may be irrelevant as Jarulfs guide, and other related modding tools already provide most of the information one would need to make a mod (with some programming knowledge of course)

-Kal