It snowed!

[ShadowHM]

I know that there must be many here who were affected, adversely or not, by the recent storm.

So for those who need a chuckle about now, I give you:

Snow in Toronto!!

[kandrathe]

Yeah, this winter has been non-stop for us. It seems that we've been in a weekly cycle of mid 20's to 30's followed by 4-8 inches of snow, then arctic cold front dropping the temp into single digits with high winds. It just keeps piling higher and higher.

[DeeBye]

I am kind of sick of snow. This season has been the worst for me. My back aches.

[Alram]

It rarely snows where I live, and when it does, it doesn't stick. But, yesterday was an exception.
All of my patients canceled and I didn't have to go to work; that was nice.
These pics are taken from inside my house of the front and backyards. The footprints in the 1st picture were made by some animal.

[DeeBye]

All of my patients canceled and I didn't have to go to work; that was nice.

Back in December I got 5 feet of snow in a 3-day span and I never missed a day of work. I don't know whether to salute you or give you the finger.

[Alram]

All of my patients canceled and I didn't have to go to work; that was nice.

Back in December I got 5 feet of snow in a 3-day span and I never missed a day of work. I don't know whether to salute you or give you the finger.

The snow itself is not a problem down here. As you can see from the photos it is certainly not deep. But on the roads it turns into ice, and makes driving hazardous. Nobody here has snow tires or chains. And I live and work out in the country where there is no subway system or such; everyone goes everywhere by car. Put all those factors together, and everyone stays home.

---

I forgot to add that there are also many official road closures. Here is are excerpts from a news article about it.

Snow causes various closures, issues
Section of Interstate 35 closed


AUSTIN (KXAN) - It started with sleet and turned into snow, and now crews have closed Interstate 35 from San Marcos to San Antonio as of 3:30 a.m. Friday.

Closed or impassable roads in San Marcos area

* RR12 to Wimberley from city limits of San marcos is slow
* Southbound I-35 is slow at MM 204
* Most roads west of I-35 in San Marcos difficult to travel

I-35 in both directions from Austin to San Marcos has reopened, but there are numerous accidents in the horribly icy conditions. I-35 in both directions south of New Braunfels to Loop 1604 -- which wraps around San Antonio -- is still closed, but officials said they are in the process of getting some lanes reopened.
...
The snowy conditions have caused accidents in the area that killed two people.

Drivers reported Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard being extremely slick, even though crews have treated the road.

A Mustang and a pickup truck were artfully trying to get themselves out of a stall on the onramp at MLK and I-35 northbound. The pickup truck driver tried pouring his morning drink to melt the snow around the mustang and even tried to pile snow underneath the car tire and cut some grass from the side of the road to try to use that as traction.

A Highway Emergency Response Operation officials and police finally arrived to guide both of the vehicles out of the snag, finally pushing the front car, the Mustang, with the police vehicle to pull him out of the icy mess after the it's tires couldn't gain any traction and kept spinning.

More than 100 traffic accidents were reported in Hays County overnight.

full story here

[DeeBye]

The snow itself is not a problem down here. As you can see from the photos it is certainly not deep. But on the roads it turns into ice, and makes driving hazardous. Nobody here has snow tires or chains.

I've heard of this phenomenon before, but I have never seen snow turn to ice on a road unless there is very fast thawing and re-freezing going on, or sheer volume of traffic is flattening the snow into ice.

I have never used snow tires or chains, and I'm just fine driving in snow up to the floorboards in my front-wheel drive car.

Isn't it more accurate to say that you just don't have enough experience driving in snow?

I don't mean to sound argumentative, but every time I see pictures of snow hitting the south and society turning into Lord of the Flies I laugh myself silly.

Fun fact: I just got another 6 inches of snow today.

[--Pete]

Hi,

I've heard of this phenomenon before, but I have never seen snow turn to ice on a road unless there is very fast thawing and re-freezing going on, or sheer volume of traffic is flattening the snow into ice.

Of course, in areas that get one or two snowstorms a decade, the people don't know how to drive on it. Even those that did are out of practice. You can spot the skiers because they are in control. And, again of course, in those regions people don't have the gear (good tires, chains, etc.) and the roads aren't cleared. To that extent, you are right.

However, ice is a different matter. It will give even a good winter driver a challenge, especially if it's close to the freezing point and the pressure of driving on it gives a thin layer of liquid between the tires and the ice. In those conditions, the only thing that really works is studded tires on all four wheels (or just on the front if the car is front wheel drive and you're good enough to use the Swedish rally technique).

If the temperatures are low enough, you'll never see snow turn to ice. It will turn to hard-pack, but that's not too bad. However, if the temperature is close to freezing, then the snow can partially melt by day and then refreeze by night, giving true ice. The worst case is when a layer of ice forms and then a nice layer of fine powder lands on it. That's when you pray for a deep snowfall so that your tires never touch the ice. Or a Chinook.

Half the fun of skiing is getting there.

--Pete

[kandrathe]

However, ice is a different matter. It will give even a good winter driver a challenge, especially if it's close to the freezing point and the pressure of driving on it gives a thin layer of liquid between the tires and the ice.

That reminds me of a recent Christmas where I drove down south to my mom's place. She moved there from here. Going through the Ozarks we ran into an ice storm, and it left about 1/2 inch of ice on the roads covering about 100 miles of my trip. That 100 miles took about 4 hours, instead of 2, and I passed by hundreds of people whose lack of skill sent them flying off into the ditch left and right. It's not that driving through ice storms is unusual up north here, but people don't fly off the roads here as much. For one thing, they salt and sand the roads which helps immensely. I avoid rush hours during storms as a rule, as they become more akin to carnival bumper car rides. But it is an adrenaline kick when driving transforms itself into an exercise of exerting influence on momentum, and it's really only rapid changes in velocity and curves that present any challenging problems.

In fact, the only time I really lost it on the ice, was when I was 17. There was an brief ice storm over night, but come morning, the sun came out and dried up the roads. I left the house at about noon, and was zooming along on dry roads on a sunny winter day. I came up around a shaded curve and before I could blink, I had plowed a furrow through the snow bank landing near about a dozen other victims of this ice trap.

[Kevin]

For one thing, they salt and sand the roads which helps immensely.

You get the salt and sand here, but the big difference is, while a town of 15,000 people in Missouri might have a total of 3 plows with the sand/salt spreaders, a town that size in Wisconsin will have 8 or more, plus a couple dozen folks with plows on their personally owned vehicles, and can much more rapidly deploy. There also aren't nearly as large of salt and sand stores. You only expect about 3 or 4 real snowfalls here in mid MO. You expect dozens or more in WI and MN. So a later in the year fall can mean there isn't anything left to spread.

I also can't blame them for not keeping much more equipment. It costs just sitting there doing nothing and when 6 inches of snow can be melted off 3 days later it really isn't as big of a deal. You do get more ice here than farther north as well and it is harder to drive on. But again as mentioned even if you want to practice you get a day or two after the storm, before nature removes it, to get that time in. So yeah I do chuckle at some of the issues folks have here, but it's not like there aren't very sensible reasons for it. Growing up in WI, there was snow cover on the ground for months at a time. I practiced (and played) in parking lots, I got to drive on roads that were in all states of clearance many times. You just don't get that here.

[--Pete]

Hi,

I practiced (and played) in parking lots, ...

And played, and played, and played. I used to pray for ice storms when I was in my late teens. Lenox Square was only about three miles away and had some huge parking lots. The SCCA used to hold gymkhanas there and it was perfect for playing on ice. No school + icy parking lot + old Volvo = formula for fun.

--Pete

[kandrathe]

And played, and played, and played.

I used to pray for a good week of subzero weather with calm winds and no snow, making the lakes here the perfect place for some great massive slides. Also, good for skating.

[Alram]

One day after the snow storm and the icy roads, it was 60 degrees out here. The weather has been beautiful for the past three days.

[DeeBye]

One day after the snow storm and the icy roads, it was 60 degrees out here. The weather has been beautiful for the past three days.

Yeah I'm going to have to give you the finger now. Here, it's brutally cold, snow is still flying, and I'm starting to have real problems backing out of my driveway into the road now. The snowbanks on either side of my driveway are over 6 feet tall and I can't see oncoming traffic when I back out.

[eppie]

In those conditions, the only thing that really works is studded tires on all four wheels (or just on the front if the car is front wheel drive and you're good enough to use the Swedish rally technique).

Or 'cancer tires' as we like to call them. Luckily here they are trying to ban them....up north you need them but in town you just need to drive carefully.
And as you say they are only necesarry when there is real ice on the road......and most of the time it is snow and they don't help much there (at least not compared to normal winter tires).

My mountain bike is still going strong though. Except for last week when we had slightly higher temperatures during the day......I biked down hill on a dry path and all of a sudden I saw around the corner that it was covered with wet ice.....I tried to put my foot to the ground but in didn't help. Spiked tires would have done the trick I think.

[kandrathe]

One day after the snow storm and the icy roads, it was 60 degrees out here. The weather has been beautiful for the past three days.

Yeah I'm going to have to give you the finger now. Here, it's brutally cold, snow is still flying, and I'm starting to have real problems backing out of my driveway into the road now. The snowbanks on either side of my driveway are over 6 feet tall and I can't see oncoming traffic when I back out.

Agreed.

http://www.snowmanpics.com/wp-content/up...wman-1.jpg

This morning it was -15F and I don't care what the wind chill was.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Or 'cancer tires' as we like to call them. Luckily here they are trying to ban them....up north you need them but in town you just need to drive carefully.
And as you say they are only necesarry when there is real ice on the road......and most of the time it is snow and they don't help much there (at least not compared to normal winter tires).

Different conditions require different gear. I've never owned studded tires. I've never had any real trouble getting to where I'm going with just mud & snow tires and, occasionally, chains. Right now, my 18 year old Explorer still has the chains I originally bought for it. Except for the one time I put them on to trim for length, I've never used them.

In Eastern Washington, the temperatures are quite a bit lower than here, but it is relatively dry. This leads to a phenomenon known as black ice. The moisture in the air condenses on the road surface and forms a thin, almost invisible, layer of ice. It is especially treacherous because you can drive on it and not even know you're doing so until you try to break or turn. Studded tires there are a good idea.

Here in Western Washington, we seldom get snow, it's usually just an inch or so, and it usually is gone in a couple of days. The only ice I've seen is on the ski slopes and in drinks. However, they can't seem to put together a state law that permits studded tires east of the mountain and prohibit them west (say, based on the county in which the car is registered). Studded tires here are a bad idea since all they do is tear up the road and increase the particulate matter in the air.

It's all a matter of conditions. The one constant would be better driver training. I suspect that most of the cars you see off the road are there because the car started a little baby skid and the driver hit the breaks. You don't really need to know how to drive to get a license.

--Pete

[DeeBye]

It's all a matter of conditions. The one constant would be better driver training. I suspect that most of the cars you see off the road are there because the car started a little baby skid and the driver hit the breaks. You don't really need to know how to drive to get a license.

--Pete

Absolutely.

I see a lot of people in this thread saying that you need snow tires or studs or even chains to drive safely in winter conditions. You do not. You just need to be mindful of how your vehicle reacts in snow and adjust your driving accordingly. Slow the hell down and give yourself tons of error space.

[eppie]

I see a lot of people in this thread saying that you need snow tires or studs or even chains to drive safely in winter conditions. You do not. You just need to be mindful of how your vehicle reacts in snow and adjust your driving accordingly. Slow the hell down and give yourself tons of error space.

Although you are technically right, where I live you can't give yourself 'tons of error space' usually.
If you are driving almost alone on a country road yes, but in a metropolitan area with a million inhabitants it is a different thing.
Here in sweden winter tires are compulsory by the way. But as I said before, apart from the high north, in most bigger towns local governments try to ban studded tires on cars (some streets through town are off limit if you have studded tires on your car).

And also as a response to Pete.....; indeed you don't need to be able to drive a care in order to be allowed to do so.
Swedes are not very good drivers, and still the choose to drive very big cars (they are very much like americans or canadians I think), and usually they also like to use their phones while driving.....I am happy that at least they use winter tires. If only they would also start using their indicator lights and their side and rear view mirrors.

[--Pete]

Hi,

I see a lot of people in this thread saying that you need snow tires or studs or even chains to drive safely in winter conditions. You do not.

Like I said, it depends on the conditions.

Another little story:

One winter when I lived in Pullman, it started raining which turned to ice and then snow as the temperature dropped. By morning we had a good four to six inches of snow over about an inch of ice. Nice and cold, no problem.

Then a Chinook started. It warmed up quite a bit by afternoon, so the snow was turning to slush and the ice was melting at the top.

Now, there was a gravel parking lot behind the science library. The lot had a fair slope that ran at right angles to how the cars were normally parked.

Well, the slope, the ice, the lack of studded tires led to one of the strangest things I've seen. First one car, then another started to slip sideways, downhill. Mind you, these were parked cars. When one car hit the next, sometimes the slide would stop, more often the second would also start sliding.

Sometimes, even zero is too fast for the conditions.

--Pete