Comedy

[Taem]

An epiphany came to me today in the shower: there is no real comedy, only tragedy!

I cannot think of a single type of comedy that is not at the expense of someone or something else. We laugh at other peoples misfortunes; this is comedy. The boarder between Tragedy is Comedy is a thin line. Can you lurkers give me an example of something funny that is *not* at someone or somethings expense?

This... after I've been pondering a book, The Price of Altruism by Oren Harman, where George Prices' social theory dictates that there is no real altruism in this world; that everything is motivated in one way or another by self sustaining endeavors (audio tape of PRI interview with Oren). Anyways, the two interrelate because I realized that what we consider to be "good" is nothing more than our own selfish interests, and what we consider to be comedy is just a form of tragedy, watching others suffer (so that we may excel perhaps?), so really, there is no good in this world. Just a thought to cheer you up for today .

[Sir_Die_alot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M <---comedy not tragedy

Granted the guy bops himself on the head or other minor goofs but the true joke of the skit is not at anyone's expense.

Edit: I think "comedy" is better defined as our amusement over our own and other's mistakes and misunderstandings. Maybe it keeps us from going insane after a lifetime of goof ups.

[kandrathe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M <---comedy not tragedy

Granted the guy bops himself on the head or other minor goofs but the true joke of the skit is not at anyone's expense.

Edit: I think "comedy" is better defined as our amusement over our own and other's mistakes and misunderstandings. Maybe it keeps us from going insane after a lifetime of goof ups.

Although... What makes the skit funny is not merely the linguistic misunderstandings. That would be mildly amusing to some, but the real edge of the comedy is the frustration both people experience in attempting to communicate. The audience gets it. But, it's at the expense of the actors tempers. Much of stand up is self deprecating as well. But, someone like Steven Wright takes the language manipulation humor pretty far, and much of it seems funny without being at anyone's expense.

"The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese." -- Steven Wright

[Kevin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M <---comedy not tragedy

Granted the guy bops himself on the head or other minor goofs but the true joke of the skit is not at anyone's expense.

Edit: I think "comedy" is better defined as our amusement over our own and other's mistakes and misunderstandings. Maybe it keeps us from going insane after a lifetime of goof ups.

It may not be tragedy, but you can argue the joke is at the expense of of the character who is unable to grasp that Who, What, I Don't Know, etc are sir names and not pronouns. You can also argue that it's just making fun of the language, but that again is humor based on a flaw, if the language were structured better / differently the joke doesn't work.

This understanding is part of why clowns cry and many people don't find them funny, they rarely try to hide the fact that comedy is often about suffering, ignorance, etc.

---

"The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese." -- Steven Wright

That's at the expense of the tragedy of the first mouse dying.


His "I bought some powdered water but didn't know what to add" or "I bought some batteries but they weren't included" are closer to funny without being based on some form of tragedy.

"Why do we drive on parkways and park on driveways?" is a pure language thing. Which like I mentioned earlier you might be able to argue is funny because the language isn't better than it is. But that I think is still a better example than your mouse one which clearly has tragedy worked into it.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Can you lurkers give me an example of something funny that is *not* at someone or somethings expense?

Of course, I have no idea of what you find funny. I personally think
Doctor: "I have good news and bad news. First, the bad news. You'll have to give yourself painful injections daily for the rest of your life. But the good news is, you won't have to do it for long."
is hilarious.

However, I consider this funny also, and no elephants were injured in the making:

1. How do you put a giraffe into a refrigerator?

Correct Answer: Open the refrigerator, put in the giraffe, and close the door.

2. How do you put an elephant into a refrigerator?

Did you say, Open the refrigerator, put in the elephant, and close the refrigerator? Wrong Answer.

Correct Answer: Open the refrigerator, take out the giraffe, put in the elephant and close the door.

3. The Lion King is hosting an animal conference. All the animals attend.... except one. Which animal does not attend?

Correct Answer: The Elephant. The elephant is in the refrigerator. You just put him in there.

Okay, even if you did not answer the first three questions correctly, you still have one more chance to show your true abilities.

4. There is a river you must cross but it is used by crocodiles, and you do not have a boat. How do you manage it?

Correct Answer: You jump into the river and swim across. Have you not been listening? All the crocodiles are attending the Animal Meeting.

Childish, yes. But then, children see clearly for they aren't looking through the cataracts of experience.

. . . there is no real altruism in this world; . . .

Yes. And no. RAH pointed out quite convincingly that of all the things we can do, we always do what makes us happiest. Typical example: we want to sleep in. We want to keep our job more. We get up and go to work. The consequence of going to work makes us happier than the consequences of sleeping in.

There is a feeling of satisfaction in helping others. Whether this is an evolutionary drive that contributes to the survival of the species or a selfish impulse that makes us feel superior ("Look at me. Not only can I make it for myself, but I can drag this dead weight along, too.") the result is the same. And we call that result altruism.

Anyways, the two interrelate because I realized that what we consider to be "good" is nothing more than our own selfish interests, . . .

Enlightened self interest is a better basis for "goodness" than all the "morality" spewed by every shaman who ever existed. The best of them taught two ideals: "First, do no harm." and "Treat everyone as you would be treated". And then, they invariably screw it up with something about shellfish, or cows, or circling the camp widdershins.

. . . and what we consider to be comedy is just a form of tragedy, watching others suffer . . .

Mostly just on network TV.

. . . so really, there is no good in this world.

It's not here intrinsically, but we can and sometimes do generate some.

Just a thought to cheer you up for today .

Thanks. I think.

--Pete

[kandrathe]

An epiphany came to me today in the shower: there is no real comedy, only tragedy!

I would be careful of "all or nothing" types of enlightenment. Aristostle, in the Poetics, noted that as a form, Comedy was most divorced from every day life (Mimesis), and that Tragedy was most authentic to everyday life. Wikipedia says "Much comedy contains variations on the elements of surprise, incongruity, conflict, repetitiveness, and the effect of opposite expectations, but there are many recognized genres of comedy."

In general, comedy provokes laughter, and I would guess that there are ways to be successful at doing that without being at the expense of anything, or anyone. Perhaps, it is just easiest to provoke laughter using the tried and true methods. The hard way may require the audience to have rarer qualities, like higher IQ or special knowledge (e.g. Noël Coward).

My youngest son has the gift of humor, and since he was very young (4yrs) has enthralled small mobs of young teen girls hanging out at the local malls with his repertoire of jokes, songs, and silliness. My oldest heads of to Air Traffic to watch the young men play Warhammer, and my youngest looks for an audience. Anyway, the point is, I am amazed at how he picks out subtle humor in the things we watch together (e.g. most recently Monsters vs Aliens).

[--Pete]

Hi,

I would be careful of "all or nothing" types of enlightenment.

I would take that one step further and say that 'all or nothing' is the opposite of enlightenment. Enlightenment is finding the truth in every lie and the lie in every truth and balancing them, accepting them.

Enlightenment is seeing both sides of the coin simultaneously and realizing that while the edge separates them, it also joins them.

/zen

I like Lombardi's "Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence." (although I think that's a paraphrase of what he actually said).

--Pete

[Nystul]

I think that humor is largely about the unexpected. If all you see in comedy is laughing at the expense of others, you have maybe grown cynical or indeed watch too much sitcom or stand-up routines.

Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy

Odorless perfume wouldn't make any scents.

Why did the chicken cross the road?

[Frag]

Why isn't your nose upside down?








Because you'd blow up.

~Frag

[kandrathe]

Because you'd blow up.

I sent this one to my mom; It's the kind of joke a son can send to his mother... Especially due to the recent weather, and since I live up here, in Minnesota, while she lives down there, in the South.

A Minnesota couple decided to vacation to Florida during the winter. They planned to stay at the very same hotel where they spent their honeymoon 20 years earlier. Because of hectic schedules, it was difficult to coordinate their travel schedules. So, the husband left Minnesota and flew to Florida on Thursday. His wife would fly down the following day.

The husband checked into the hotel. There was a computer in his room, so he decided to send an e-mail to his wife. However, he accidentally left out one letter in her e-mail address, and without realizing his error, he sent the e-mail.

Meanwhile.....somewhere in Houston, a widow had just returned home from her husband's funeral. He was a minister of many years who was called home to glory following a sudden heart attack. The widow decided to check her e-mail, expecting messages from relatives and friends. After reading the first message, she fainted.

The widow's son rushed into the room, found his mother on the floor, and saw the computer screen which read:

To: My Loving Wife
Subject: I've Arrived
Date: 16 May 2003
I know you're surprised to hear from me. They have computers here now and you are allowed to send e-mails to your loved ones. I've just arrived and have been checked in. I see that everything has been prepared for your arrival tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing you then! Hope your journey is not as uneventful as mine was.

P.S. Sure is hot down here!

[Jester]

An epiphany came to me today in the shower: there is no real comedy, only tragedy!

I would be careful of "all or nothing" types of enlightenment. Aristostle, in the Poetics, noted that as a form, Comedy was most divorced from every day life (Mimesis), and that Tragedy was most authentic to everyday life. Wikipedia says "Much comedy contains variations on the elements of surprise, incongruity, conflict, repetitiveness, and the effect of opposite expectations, but there are many recognized genres of comedy."

I am reminded of Borges' story "Averroes' Search," where Averroes, interpreting Aristotle, struggles to translate "tragedy," because in his world view, all things return to Allah, and there can be no such thing as a fundamentally unhappy ending.

-Jester

[--Pete]

Hi,

. . . in his world view, all things return to Allah, and there can be no such thing as a fundamentally unhappy ending.

Or a happy one. Basically can 'comedy' and 'tragedy' coexist with 'kismet'?

--Pete

[Taem]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M <---comedy not tragedy

Granted the guy bops himself on the head or other minor goofs but the true joke of the skit is not at anyone's expense.

Edit: I think "comedy" is better defined as our amusement over our own and other's mistakes and misunderstandings. Maybe it keeps us from going insane after a lifetime of goof ups.

That little clip proves my point brilliantly! In the first 1:40 we have:

1) Man interrupts, "Peanuts, popcorn." The fact that this professional baseball player is trying to tell the crowd something, but gets rudely interrupted is of course comedy, even though it is at his demise.

2) Rude interloper breaks lights, "Whoops, I didn't see those lights there." Again, pure comedy, at the expense of whomever own the lights in the skit.

3) Knocks hat off with bat. Yes, it's funny because he is uncoordinated. We laugh at his demise.

4) " 'Who' is on 1st," "Who?" This little misunderstanding, a form of ignorance (that we find funny by the way), which leads to a misinformed debate on who is actually on first base at the malady of the poor professional baseball player.

Of course, since it is a fictional skit, we can sit back and laugh at it's antics, yet this does not change the fact that what we are finding amusing or funny is in fact other peoples suffering. Don't forget that. Next.

---

Of course, I have no idea of what you find funny. I personally think
Doctor: "I have good news and bad news. First, the bad news. You'll have to give yourself painful injections daily for the rest of your life. But the good news is, you won't have to do it for long."
is hilarious.

Yes, other peoples suffering is hilarious.

However, I consider this funny also, and no elephants were injured in the making:

1. How do you put a giraffe into a refrigerator?

Correct Answer: Open the refrigerator, put in the giraffe, and close the door.

2. How do you put an elephant into a refrigerator?

Did you say, Open the refrigerator, put in the elephant, and close the refrigerator? Wrong Answer.

Correct Answer: Open the refrigerator, take out the giraffe, put in the elephant and close the door.

3. The Lion King is hosting an animal conference. All the animals attend.... except one. Which animal does not attend?

Correct Answer: The Elephant. The elephant is in the refrigerator. You just put him in there.

Okay, even if you did not answer the first three questions correctly, you still have one more chance to show your true abilities.

4. There is a river you must cross but it is used by crocodiles, and you do not have a boat. How do you manage it?

Correct Answer: You jump into the river and swim across. Have you not been listening? All the crocodiles are attending the Animal Meeting.

Clearly, lamenting others ignorance in a humorous fashion is a boon for comedy.

---

I think that humor is largely about the unexpected. If all you see in comedy is laughing at the expense of others, you have maybe grown cynical or indeed watch too much sitcom or stand-up routines.

Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy

Odorless perfume wouldn't make any scents.

Why did the chicken cross the road?

I still find "comedy" funny, but I just realized what I'm laughing at and why. It's sick, and I love it. And since you find comedy funny also, might as well accept the truth, unless you can find me something that is authentically funny that does not poke fun at someones ignorance, stupidity, pain... basically anything that would cause another to suffer in one way or another. Unless someone is experiencing some type of misfortune, there is nothing funny about comedy.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Yes, other peoples suffering is hilarious.

Yes, it is. However, Magi made that joke up about me. Still hilarious.

Clearly, lamenting others ignorance in a humorous fashion is a boon for comedy.

??

I still find "comedy" funny, but I just realized what I'm laughing at and why.

Valentine Michael Smith. Now start a religion and feed us your finger. And pity that smallest monkey.

--Pete

[Taem]

Hi,

Clearly, lamenting others ignorance in a humorous fashion is a boon for comedy.

??

The "correct" answer is never what you think. The humor is in showing the reader how ignorant he is because of how "obvious" the answer is. If the reader already knew the answers to these jokes, they would fail to amuse.

[--Pete]

Hi,

The humor is in showing the reader how ignorant he is . . .

Fifth graders usually get them. And laugh.

Dude, you've either been reading too much Poe, or you need some lithium.

Just to cheer you up.

--Pete

[Taem]

The humor is in showing the reader how ignorant he is . . .

Fifth graders usually get them. And laugh.

Dude, you've either been reading too much Poe, or you need some lithium.

I got it. And it's mildly humorous, but when I stop to ask myself, "why is this funny?" that the answer becomes clear. Either you can agree with what I'm saying about comedy, or say I have simply failed to comprehend the concept.

What I find amusing about all the responses thus far is everyone assumes I'm either "unhappy" or malcontent in some way, but nothing could be further from the truth! In my personal life, I find my job refreshing and fulfilling on an almost daily basis with enough challenges to keep me going from one task to the next; my kids are clever and give me just enough spunk to rile me up when I get too distracted, yet obedient enough to do what they are told; my wife is beautiful and without her I'd be lost; I am content with my financial and social status and yes, I am happy! What everyone is failing to recognize in this thread is my musings on comedy in general. Feel free to attack the post, not the poster. Like I already mentioned in another post in this thread, I still find comedy funny, but now when I hear a joke, I can think to myself, "why do I find this funny," and I digress from the joke with the clarity of realization, but Pete, I still laugh. Just because "we" [everyone] laugh at other peoples misfortune does not make it a bad thing. I rather enjoy it, and the more I understand it, the more I'm able to comprehend how some people find atrocious acts of immorality humorous. In this fashion, I wonder if humor is like violence or porn, where the more we are exposed too it, the more desensitized we becomes to it until what was once a dirty little joke has become the norm; I wonder if that is why most comedians start off with light jokes before working up to the big dozies, because jumping straight to the more hard-line jokes would make the audience feel uncomfortable, at least until their tolerance threshold has been diminished by the less offensive jokes. Thoughts?

[--Pete]

Hi,

Well, first off let me congratulate you on your life. It sounds good.

Either you can agree with what I'm saying about comedy, or say I have simply failed to comprehend the concept.

No, because it isn't (I think) an either-or situation. If you say that *some* comedy is based on tragedy, I'll agree. Some is based on shock value (the f bomb approach being an example of that). Some is based on word play. I'm sure that, with a little thought, you can tie all of them to tragedy. But it is a stretch, you've hit upon a truth and you're turning it into a principle.

Which is why I pointed you to Stranger in a Strange Land.

"There exists . . . " and "For all . . . " are not interchangeable.

--Pete

[Alram]

Why do chicken coops have 2 doors?
Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip?










Because, if they had 4 doors, they'd be called chicken sedans.
To get to the same side.

[kandrathe]

The "correct" answer is never what you think. The humor is in showing the reader how ignorant he is because of how "obvious" the answer is. If the reader already knew the answers to these jokes, they would fail to amuse.

Many of these types of jokes (word play, or misdirection) are funny because the listener wouldn't know the right answer, or didn't think about it in the way the comic presents it. It's not an ignorance or buffoon thing. Example; Comic says, "Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.", or "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate." It's not disparaging anyone, the comic is giving a bit of pithy wisdom, and the listener, finds the turn of phrase amusing. In the second example is funny because it's chemistry humor, and that is what makes it funny.

Another example, "Success took me to her bosom like a maternal boa constrictor. " Is success a tragedy? We visualize the a poor individual being hugged extremely tightly, but what is funny is its use in describing success.

"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die. " -- Mel Brooks

"Through humor, you can soften some of the worst blows that life delivers. And once you find laughter, no matter how painful your situation might be, you can survive it." -- Bill Cosby