300

[--Pete]

Hi,

I'd supposed that the title referred to the 300 Spartans at the battle of Thermopylae. But after seeing the movie, I now know it stands for its score on the one-to-ten suck-o-meter.

Clearly conceived by a no talent jerk who was too ignorant to make it accurate and too stupid to make it original, this crappy, modernized, Americanized, bastardized story received the treatment it deserved in the lousy (over) acting, the loud and inane score, the flashy yet boring effects. Except for the humor value of a Greek Gollum as the traitor, and the one historic line (We will fight in the shade), this movie meets the definition of pornography (it has no socially redeeming value) without even the prurient appeal.

This was possibly the worse movie I've seen since Titanic.

--Pete

[LennyLen]

While I agree with you that it's one of the worst movies I've ever seen, it needs to be pointed out that you can't blame the movie makers on the inaccuracies, since the movie was based on a comic book, not the real events.

[--Pete]

Hi,

While I agree with you that it's one of the worst movies I've ever seen, it needs to be pointed out that you can't blame the movie makers on the inaccuracies, since the movie was based on a comic book, not the real events.

There's enough stink to go around. While what you say is true (I kept repeating "It's a comic book, it's a comic book."), it doesn't excuse the comic book makers from their faults (ignorance and lack of originality). And, of course, the movie makers choose this <strike>crap</strike> material to make a movie from, and added their own buckets of sewage.

From some of the frames of the comic book that I've seen, I can at least give some props to the art work. The only thing I can say for the movie is that it was so horrid, I couldn't look away -- sort of a two hour train wreck.

--Pete

[Jester]

The depiction of the Persians was simply shameful - I don't need the bad guys to be sympathetic, but could they at least look *human*? I know relations with Iran aren't so great, but I'm pretty sure it's still populated by homo sapiens, and was back then as well. I was particularly amused by Dan Savage's critical line about "Emperor RuPaul" of the Persians. Apparently, in addition to being half-orc, the Persians are also gay. Who knew?

I thought that 300 was stylistically interesting, but from any other perspective, nothing but an appeal to the worst kind of over-testosterone'd revisionism. Much of this is owed to Frank Miller, throwing his own contemporary politics back a couple thousand years. But not all of it - the movie dialed it up, rather than down.

-Jester

[Crusader]

It did lead to some amusing videos though.

[kandrathe]

It did lead to some amusing videos though.

And, a whole movie spoofing it, "Meet the Spartans". While of equal quality, the later actually made me chuckle a few times.

[Tal]

This was possibly the worse movie I've seen since Titanic.

--Pete

Sadly I enjoyed 300 for its pure, visceral, and unadulterated action. But my taste in movies does tend to run towards the "hee it go boom" category.:)

[--Pete]

Hi,

Sadly I enjoyed 300 for its pure, visceral, and unadulterated action. But my taste in movies does tend to run towards the "hee it go boom" category.:)

As one who enjoyed both Conan movies as well as all the Die Hard, I understand (and share) your taste. But the non-action parts of 300 where inane, inaccurate, and largely disconnected. The action parts had a few good scenes, but were overall pretty predictable and boring. Or over the top -- war rhinos??? And with so much of the plot (all two lines of it) hinging on the fact that Spartans fought as a hoplite phalanx, one could expect more than a brief flash of it.

No, I don't think 300 fails because it doesn't meet my standards. I think it fails because it doesn't meet its own.

--Pete

[Chesspiece_face]

Hi,
As one who enjoyed both Conan movies as well as all the Die Hard, I understand (and share) your taste. But the non-action parts of 300 where inane, inaccurate, and largely disconnected. The action parts had a few good scenes, but were overall pretty predictable and boring. Or over the top -- war rhinos??? And with so much of the plot (all two lines of it) hinging on the fact that Spartans fought as a hoplite phalanx, one could expect more than a brief flash of it.

No, I don't think 300 fails because it doesn't meet my standards. I think it fails because it doesn't meet its own.

--Pete

I can't argue why you dislike or like a movie (and why would I bother? I'm sorry you've felt your time was wasted with it :D). But I fail to see how it fails on it's own standards. The comic and the movie after it aren't supposed to be a historical telling. They are based on the somewhat meta idea of a story passing through generations from mouth to mouth. The actual actions we see take place in the movie aren't even meant to be accurate as far as the movie is concerned but more that this is the exaggerated tale that Dilios brought back to the rest of the Greeks that sprung them to action. That is why the whole narration starting from the birth of Leonidas is done by the character Dilios, the whole of the movie is just the storyteller passing on the story, fable, or lore (call it what you will). The key issue of the comic and the movie aren't the action or even the story being told but the importance of telling stories themselves. As far as comics go it's a meta issue that is revisited relatively often, most recently by Grant Morrison's Final Crisis which was about as meta as you will ever get for a superhero book.

[--Pete]

Hi,

I can't argue why you dislike or like a movie (and why would I bother? I'm sorry you've felt your time was wasted with it :D).

Not 'argue', but perhaps, as you've done in this post, discuss.:)

But I fail to see how it fails on it's own standards. The comic and the movie after it aren't supposed to be a historical telling. They are based on the somewhat meta idea of a story passing through generations from mouth to mouth. The actual actions we see take place in the movie aren't even meant to be accurate as far as the movie is concerned but more that this is the exaggerated tale that Dilios brought back to the rest of the Greeks that sprung them to action. That is why the whole narration starting from the birth of Leonidas is done by the character Dilios, the whole of the movie is just the storyteller passing on the story, fable, or lore (call it what you will). The key issue of the comic and the movie aren't the action or even the story being told but the importance of telling stories themselves. As far as comics go it's a meta issue that is revisited relatively often, most recently by Grant Morrison's Final Crisis which was about as meta as you will ever get for a superhero book.

OK, I'll admit that I had not considered this interpretation. The movie, The 13th Warrior was a retelling of the Beowulf legend and captured the essence of both the legend and the way events mutate over time. So, perhaps, that was the aim in 300. However, there is one big difference between the two cases. Beowulf (like the Iliad and the Odyssey before it) is the capture of an oral tale at one point in time. The Persian war is pretty much history, rather than legend. What happened, allowing for exaggeration, is pretty well known.

I don't claim that historical events should only be presented historically. Some of my favorite writing is from Turtledove and his alternate histories. However, for this form to be interesting, the new story needs to be better (or at least as good) as the original. But 300 fails this test. It transforms a defining event in Western culture into a petty and self serving act.

Also, if the intent were to show how the tale evolved through the generations, then why is it being told by a participant in the events? But that is a minor point. Much of what is told in 300 is based on how the Spartans acted. The whole bit with the oracles is trash. The oracle at Delphi *was* consulted -- but there is no resemblance between Delphi and the oracle in the movie. And no Greek of those times would have accepted such a story (OK, maybe the Greeks had their conspiracy theory lunatic fringe, but the rest wouldn't believe it). The background infighting at Sparta was both historically wrong and culturally improbable (to the point of being impossible). And the position of the Spartan women was such that the whole sub-plot of the queen is laughable without being humorous.

If, indeed, the purpose of 300 was to demonstrate how a tale evolves through the generations, then the tale should have been developed in accordance with the beliefs and attitudes of the Greeks, especially of the Spartans. Not that of modern Anglo nations. So, while I will grant you that that may have been its purpose, I think that even in that it failed.

--Pete

[LavCat]

This was possibly the worse movie I've seen since Titanic.

--Pete

Have not seen 300 and have no desire to, just from looking at the DVD case. However there was an earlier movie about the battle, as I recall from the 1960's, that I thought was rather fun.

Not all movies from a comic book are bad. I again recommend Battle of the Warriors. I checked the movie out to a patron (I work at the library) a few days ago, and got into a discussion. From his accent I assume he is from China, but he had never heard of the Mozi. I hope he liked it.

[Jester]

Not all movies from a comic book are bad.

Hell, not all movies from *Frank Miller* comic books are bad. I thought Sin City was excellent.

-Jester

[Tal]

Hell, not all movies from *Frank Miller* comic books are bad. I thought Sin City was excellent.

-Jester

Ouch. I hated Sin City.

I have no taste.:(

[--Pete]

Hi,

Have not seen 300 and have no desire to, just from looking at the DVD case. However there was an earlier movie about the battle, as I recall from the 1960's, that I thought was rather fun.

There's been a few movies and TV shows on the subject, ranging from good to horrible. I've seen a few of them, but I'm not sure which one you are referring to.

Not all movies from a comic book are bad.

Never said that. I have enjoyed Superman and Batman films for years. I enjoyed the first Spiderman film. I liked X-Men. And even The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen had its moments. When I go to a comic based film, I have certain expectations -- one of which is to be entertained. I'm not judging 300 by something it never claimed to be (drama, suspense, whatever). I'm judging it by what it did claim to be.

I again recommend Battle of the Warriors. I checked the movie out to a patron (I work at the library) a few days ago, and got into a discussion. From his accent I assume he is from China, but he had never heard of the Mozi. I hope he liked it.

Thanks, added that to my NexFlix Queue. I recently watched and enjoyed The Emperor and the Assassin and this sounds like more of that genre.

--Pete

[vor_lord]

I thought 300 was so bad that I ended up staring at the seat in front of me on the airplane rather than trying to watch it.

[Jester]

Ouch. I hated Sin City.

I have no taste.:(

You're into visceral, unadulterated action, and you weren't into Marv?

-Jester

[LavCat]

Hi,
There's been a few movies and TV shows on the subject, ranging from good to horrible. I've seen a few of them, but I'm not sure which one you are referring to.

300 Spartans sounds like the right title, and it was made at the right time, 1962.

[DeeBye]

300 was awesome. It was a bunch of bad-asses heroically kicking the snot out of a larger army. It was stylish, had great music, and had memorable lines.

I was able to set the historical inaccuracy aside and just enjoy it. There are some movies you just have to turn off your brain to enjoy, and 300 was one of them. Others in this category include Shoot 'Em Up, Zombieland, and the Grindhouse films. They never pretended to be something greater than what they were. They just took the genre and went hog wild.

[--Pete]

Hi,

300 Spartans sounds like the right title, and it was made at the right time, 1962.

Thanks. Now also in queue.

--Pete

[--Pete]

Hi,

There are some movies you just have to turn off your brain to enjoy, and 300 was one of them.

I knew that going in. I tried. In order to enjoy 300, I would have had to shut down to the point of being declared brain dead. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

--Pete