Now that's a nice Hammer!

[Brista]

http://www.thottbot.com/?i=40103

The posts under it are rather entertaining too

[Quark]

http://www.thottbot.com/?i=40103

The posts under it are rather entertaining too
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First thing I saw was the 3.00 speed. "Too fast, specials are gonna suffer." Then I read that the patch is making it a 3.70 weapon. Man, Blizzard really programmed themselves into a corner with the stupid way weapon speed, attack power, and skills interact. Now they have to make the "good" items slow.

[LochnarITB]

Man, Blizzard really programmed themselves into a corner with the stupid way weapon speed, attack power, and skills interact.
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Would you be so kind as to write a treatise on how they interact? I've seen equations on proc rates that, IIRC, relate weapon speed and chance and a 1.67 factor. However, the way I read it, it seemed that the procs per minute always came out the same. I've been playing my pally (lvl 37) lately. Fights are usually begun with judging a crusader under a retribution aura. The rest of the fight is then under righteousness or command, based on 1h or 2h respectively. I look to righteousness with a faster 1h for more constant dps and then command to get large damage less frequently because of the higher damage of the slow weapon. However, it sounds to me like I should be looking for the slowest 2h. This is counterintuitive to me. Can you explain it in a way that will twiddle the "d'oh, of course" bit in this old brain?

[Quark]

It's not an issue with weapon procs or ability procs. It's an issue with using skills, and it is even more aggravated for skills (Backstab, Ambush, Overpower, etc) that are instant, i.e. not on "Next Melee Attack."

The Attack Power bonus gives a bonus to pure DPS, i.e X attack power gives you Y dps, no matter how fast or slow your weapon is. This prevents attack power from favoring fast weapons on normal attacks. Now, let's say someone has enough Attack Power for an extra 20 dps. Some theory numbers (yes, they're bad, but they show the why):

30 DPS daggers:
1.0 Attack Speed, 25-35 Damage. The AP bonus makes it 45-55.
2.0 Attack Speed, 50-70 Damage. The AP bonus makes it 90-110.

Let's take Ambush as the most exaggerated example. Ignoring the +damage that comes from different ranks, it's 250% normal damage for the attack, and that includes attack power bonus (since 1.4.0). Now you have:

1.0 Attack Speed, 112.5 - 137.5 Damage.
2.0 Attack Speed, 225 - 275 Damage.

Remember these two daggers are doing the same damage over time through normal attacks. Thus, slow is better than fast because of the skill attacks. The only mechanic that even remotely balances it out for me is the fact that Rogues have poisons, and since that's a straight % chance of proc'ing, faster is better. So Rogues go for a really slow main hand weapon, and a really fast off hand.

[LochnarITB]

Thanks, I think it is starting to sink in. One thing that confused me, though, is basing this on rogue instants. Since it is a 2h, a rogue can't (wouldn't?) even use this weapon, would they? I was thinking of it in terms of a pally or warrior using it. My interpretation of your reply is this: weapon speed is, in effect, an attack power bonus to weapon damage multiplier. In use by a pally, the proc of a seal of command is essentially the same as an instant from a rogue. It blasts the mob with the full weapon damage which has been enhanced by the weapon speed x attack power dps bonus. Therefore, if the proc rate per minute is the same, the dps is higher with a slow weapon because the damage bonus to each proc is higher.

Am I finally getting it or did I confuse the issue further?

[MongoJerry]

Definitely a priest weapon.

[Quark]

Thanks, I think it is starting to sink in.  One thing that confused me, though, is basing this on rogue instants.  Since it is a 2h, a rogue can't (wouldn't?) even use this weapon, would they?

Right, Rogues only do 1h swords/maces/daggers. I simply used Rogue as an example since it's what I know best, and since it has the biggest disparity between fast and slow due to the multiplier.

I was thinking of it in terms of a pally or warrior using it.  My interpretation of your reply is this: weapon speed is, in effect, an attack power bonus to weapon damage multiplier.  In use by a pally, the proc of a seal of command is essentially the same as an instant from a rogue.  It blasts the mob with the full weapon damage which has been enhanced by the weapon speed x attack power dps bonus.  Therefore, if the proc rate per minute is the same, the dps is higher with a slow weapon because the damage bonus to each proc is higher.

Right. I don't know Pally skills too well, but what it boils down to is that any skill/attack/ability that's based off a timer other than Normal Attack will benefit from the slower weapon more. Just glancing at things, Reckoning looks like it would benefit too.

Looking at thott for Warriors, Overpower would be the best example, Whirlwind and Mortal Strike should also apply.

[Brista]

Or perhaps even simpler

If you get an extra attack because of a talent or skill (eg Cleave, Windfury) do you want your extra attack to be made with a 10-100 weapon or a 20-200 weapon?

Similarly if you get a bonus that equals or is based on weapon damage (Seal of Command) do you want to use your big damage slow weapon or your low damage fast weapon?