Conc's Warrior DPS spreadsheets updated

[Concillian]

0.55 was primarily DW Fury refinements, quite a lot of refinements since last version, including the update for the new rage formula.
0.6 Added a sheet for DW Prot.

Kinda surprised by the potential of DW Prot, seems like if you gear up for DPS, you can output similar damage to Fury until you have enough rage to devastate every GCD, then Fury starts pulling ahead. Obviously there are some threat considerations with Devastate spam, but any Fury warrior will be pushing out some extra threat with hamstring spam too.

It's like DW prot has this "bubble" where it's damage is comparable to other builds... where you have more rage than BT / MS cooldown (more than 30 rage per 6 seconds... 5 rage per second) but less rage than Devastate every cooldown (less than 8 rage per second, depending on how many overpowers trigger... seems like around 7 RPS is going to be a rough estimate of RPS needed to maintain full GCD usage). In this "bubble" Prot DPS seems very viable. The top of the gearing for this level seems to be about where my gear is at (around 15xx AP / 19% crit / and hit rating for +10% hit all unbuffed in battle stance), which is "pretty good blues". Meaning prot DPS is going to be pretty decent in DPS gear that can be collected from questing and normal instances if a warrior collects the right gear.

I'm going to continue working on adding sheets for other builds, but slowly. I work on this stuff at work, and work has picked up lately, meaning I have less time to work on these sheets.

http://64.81.59.71/forumpics/Conc%20Warr...20v0.6.xls

The berserker prot stuff was finished kind of quickly, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were a couple small errors. I appreciate any feedback as far as pointing out where errors may be.

[WimpySmurf]

Things I've noticed going through your spread sheet.

1) You aren't modeling glancing blows. So the %Hit is off. Along with damages... This also doesn't allow you to model Crit cap, not that warrios tend to get enought crit to have to worry about that.
2) It appears there's some 1.25 divides in the OH damage column, just in the headers, should be 1.75.
3) Since your hit%/crit% is off the BT damage is a little high. You can miss a BT in addition to a dodge. Right now you're only modeling dodge as a method for not hitting.


With the adjustments I've made to duel-wield Fury. I see slightly more DPS for myself than your spreadsheet, ~15DPS. Though I've got myself doing +27DPS in white damage and -12DPS in BT damage.

I'm going to keep looking at it more as time goes on.

-WimpySmurf

[Concillian]

Things I've noticed going through your spread sheet.

1) You aren't modeling glancing blows. So the %Hit is off. Along with damages... This also doesn't allow you to model Crit cap, not that warrios tend to get enought crit to have to worry about that.

Yes. At the time I didn't have the glancing blow data. It has since become accessible, but it's difficult to retrofit. Hit% assumes a 73 mob (24.6% miss chance)

2) It appears there's some 1.25 divides in the OH damage column, just in the headers, should be 1.75.

Looks like I missed these rage changes after the last patch. I probably missed them because no cells are dependent on these cells. So this doesn't actually affect the DPS numbers or rage used. The cells used in the calcualtions look like they were changed properly.

3) Since your hit%/crit% is off the BT damage is a little high. You can miss a BT in addition to a dodge. Right now you're only modeling dodge as a method for not hitting.
With the adjustments I've made to duel-wield Fury. I see slightly more DPS for myself than your spreadsheet, ~15DPS. Though I've got myself doing +27DPS in white damage and -12DPS in BT damage.

Yeah, I've assumed in the DW spreadsheets that there is enough +hit% on gear to completely negate misses. Given that yellow attacks are only 5.6% miss chance on bosses according to wowwiki.com, I think this is a reasonable assumption. However they say that parries will happen and show as dodges. I'll have to look at my SWstats more closely after Kara to see which case is correct. Regardless, proper DW gearing should have enough hit% to negate misses on special attacks. But you are correct in that I should have this included in the model for people looking at a lower tier of gearing.

I believe that portion of the model is still correct for your gearing unless it's parries / blocks that need to be added. You shouldn't be seeing ANY misses on specials at your +hit rating and precision.

Another mistake that I know is in there is WW damage. It's using full attack power bonus instead of normalized attack power bonus. This is a very small change to overall DPS though.

[WimpySmurf]

Yeah, I've assumed in the DW spreadsheets that there is enough +hit% on gear to completely negate misses. Given that yellow attacks are only 5.6% miss chance on bosses according to wowwiki.com, I think this is a reasonable assumption. However they say that parries will happen and show as dodges. I'll have to look at my SWstats more closely after Kara to see which case is correct. Regardless, proper DW gearing should have enough hit% to negate misses on special attacks. But you are correct in that I should have this included in the model for people looking at a lower tier of gearing.

From what I've read on Elitist Jerks rouge forums, you're looking at 300+ HR w/ +10 weapon skill to completely remove misses. In my gearing, (10.84% Hit) I've still got myself w/ ~13% miss rate.

And I think I've got it setup to assume you're attacking from behind, so all parry, miss, block's are lumped under miss.

-WimpySmurf

[Kevin]

From what I've read on Elitist Jerks rouge forums, you're looking at 300+ HR w/ +10 weapon skill to completely remove misses. In my gearing, (10.84% Hit) I've still got myself w/ ~13% miss rate.

And I think I've got it setup to assume you're attacking from behind, so all parry, miss, block's are lumped under miss.

-WimpySmurf

There is a difference between never missing and a special never missing. Even when dual wielding the chance for a special to hit is treated the same as if you were using a 1H + shield or a 2 hander. Your ~13% miss rate should be for white damage only, not for special attacks like bloodthrist, mortal strike, heroic strike, revenge, etc.

[Concillian]

From what I've read on Elitist Jerks rouge forums, you're looking at 300+ HR w/ +10 weapon skill to completely remove misses. In my gearing, (10.84% Hit) I've still got myself w/ ~13% miss rate.

And I think I've got it setup to assume you're attacking from behind, so all parry, miss, block's are lumped under miss.

-WimpySmurf

There is a difference between white miss% and specials miss%. Going DW doesn't change the miss% on specials, only on white damage. specials miss% is identical to 1H + shield or 2H scenario... i.e. needing MUCH less +hit rating to negate misses.

You can verify this by using a combat mod to track misses. But not recap, recap counts everything that doesn't hit or crit as a miss (block, dodge, parry, miss are all called misses by recap). You'll see a large discrepency in misses between white swings and specials.

A little aside: Recap is bad if you're looking for accurate numbers. Aside from the aforementioned issues, it doesn't calculate crit% properly. It calcs crit% by dividing # of crits by number of non-misses. The game has crit% as a % of ALL SWINGS. Recap makes your crit % look higher than it actually is. It also isn't very accurate on DPS.

It's still good if you're comparing one setup to another and looking at DPS and such in a comparative way but if you're looking for accurate absolute numbers, it's not useful at all.

[Kevin]

There is a difference between white miss% and specials miss%. Going DW doesn't change the miss% on specials, only on white damage. specials miss% is identical to 1H + shield or 2H scenario... i.e. needing MUCH less +hit rating to negate misses.

You can verify this by using a combat mod to track misses. But not recap, recap counts everything that doesn't hit or crit as a miss (block, dodge, parry, miss are all called misses by recap). You'll see a large discrepency in misses between white swings and specials.

Actually the newest version of recap does differentiate just not on the separate personal details page. You have to highlight your name on the list with all the other toons and then highlight the specific attack, like mortal strike, and it will break down misses, parries, blocks, dodges for that attack.

[Concillian]

Actually the newest version of recap does differentiate just not on the separate personal details page. You have to highlight your name on the list with all the other toons and then highlight the specific attack, like mortal strike, and it will break down misses, parries, blocks, dodges for that attack.

Alright, I wasn't aware that Recap had been updated. I thought the guy who did it stopped playing and it was essentially unchanged from a long time ago. I haven't looked at it since ~December, so I could have some wrong information.

[Kevin]

Alright, I wasn't aware that Recap had been updated. I thought the guy who did it stopped playing and it was essentially unchanged from a long time ago. I haven't looked at it since ~December, so I could have some wrong information.

Yeah I'm using Hawksy's version of it Curse link for it. I think the crit % stuff has been fixed as well. And the DPS seems to be spot on as well if you understand what the two DPS numbers it can report are. The first DPS it does is simply based on the amount of time just you are in combat. So with my hunter if I send the pet in and don't start shooting for 10 seconds then my DPS will look higher than what SW would report. Recap also does DPS the same way SW does though it's called DPS+ which is your DPS based on the time that anyone in the group started combat and this number has matched the SW numbers for me pretty much exactly. Both are helpful metrics depending on what you are trying to figure out.

So I still use Recap for checking some stuff since the formatting is just easier for me to read than SW.

[Taelas]

Yes. At the time I didn't have the glancing blow data. It has since become accessible, but it's difficult to retrofit. Hit% assumes a 73 mob (24.6% miss chance)

Bosses get more out of Defense than players do. It's 5 (base), 19 (DW), and 0.1 per mob's Defense above your weapon skill, or 1.5 for 73 mobs. So total miss chance should be 25.5% if you have no +weapon skill.

[WimpySmurf]

There is a difference between white miss% and specials miss%. Going DW doesn't change the miss% on specials, only on white damage. specials miss% is identical to 1H + shield or 2H scenario... i.e. needing MUCH less +hit rating to negate misses.

Ahhh, I knew that but didn't internalize it I guess. I knew specials couldn't glance. Now, I'm trying to recall if I've seen a special miss or just be dodged/parried, not too sure, guessing no misses.

You can verify this by using a combat mod to track misses. But not recap, recap counts everything that doesn't hit or crit as a miss (block, dodge, parry, miss are all called misses by recap). You'll see a large discrepency in misses between white swings and specials.

The only "recap" numbers I've used is the 100DPS difference between my time as Prot spec and Fury. I haven't been looking at recap numbers to see how "accurate" the worksheet is. Mainly, I've viewed the worksheet as the ideal, constant combat numbers, which is rough to create in game (especially solo). So I haven't spent anytime trying to help figure out what the +hit/miss per weapon skill, etc.

When looking at my recap numbers I've tended to just care about damage done.

I'll adjust the special hit% by +13% and see what I get.

Oh, I've also tried to get it setup to easily change the Flurry speed up bonus, if I've hit all the boxes the 5% reduction isn't all that big.

-WimpySmurf