D2R PTR Thorny Skills

[Ruvanal]

I dug into the game files to look at some of the skills that do thorns damage since the patch notes were too vague on the values.  Not planning on looking much further unless someone points out a skill that I missed looking at.

Code:

    pal thorn    iron golem    spirit of barbs
skill level            
1    8    15    32
2    16    21    41
3    24    27    50
4    32    33    59
5    40    39    68
6    48    45    77
7    56    51    86
8    64    57    95
9    80    69    113
10    96    81    131
11    112    93    149
12    128    105    167
13    144    117    185
14    160    129    203
15    176    141    221
16    192    153    239
17    216    171    266
18    240    189    293
19    264    207    320
20    288    225    347
21    312    243    374
22    336    261    401
23    368    285    437
24    400    309    473
25    432    333    509
26    464    357    545
27    496    381    581
28    528    405    617
29    568    435    662
30    608    465    707
31    648    495    752
32    688    525    797
33    728    555    842
34    768    585    887
35    808    615    932
36    848    645    977
37    888    675    1022
38    928    705    1067
39    968    735    1112
40    1008    765    1157
41    1048    795    1202
42    1088    825    1247
43    1128    855    1292
44    1168    885    1337
45    1208    915    1382
46    1248    945    1427
47    1288    975    1472
48    1328    1005    1517
49    1368    1035    1562
50    1408    1065    1607
51    1448    1095    1652
52    1488    1125    1697
53    1528    1155    1742
54    1568    1185    1787
55    1608    1215    1832
56    1648    1245    1877
57    1688    1275    1922
58    1728    1305    1967
59    1768    1335    2012
60    1808    1365    2057
61    1848    1395    2102
62    1888    1425    2147
63    1928    1455    2192
64    1968    1485    2237
65    2008    1515    2282
66    2048    1545    2327
67    2088    1575    2372
68    2128    1605    2417
69    2168    1635    2462
70    2208    1665    2507
71    2248    1695    2552
72    2288    1725    2597
73    2328    1755    2642
74    2368    1785    2687
75    2408    1815    2732
76    2448    1845    2777
77    2488    1875    2822
78    2528    1905    2867
79    2568    1935    2912
80    2608    1965    2957

Sorry for the formatting but is should be readable enough till someone gets a better table out.  I pulled this from a spread sheet I ran up.

[myrdinn]

Thank you for the information Ruvanal . And glad to see you're still hanging around.
I'm confused with these numbers. Pally thorns isn't based on Dmg received (A percent of the Dmg is returned ?)

EDIT . Ok it is a new feature of 2.4. It seems very low.

According to Monlevel Damage for a Level 15 Monster (beginning of Acte 2 Normal) is 10 DMG
Most Monster have 50% of this value for minimum Dmg and 100% for Max dommage
So 5-10 DMG

Before 2.4 with Level 1 thorn the value was 250%
So Thorn did 12,5 to 25 DMG for low level monster.

It's already bigger than what the 2.4 do

[Ruvanal]

Myrdinn, thanks for the reply with a data point on what damage would be like in the 2.3 game.  I ran up the numbers since there had been basically none in the patch notes released about 4 days prior to the PTR starting so it could be looked at.  One of the Youtubers(Ginger Gaming Mentor) had done a test on the stream about an hour before I finished up the table to see the numbers.  He had found the results rather lackluster in his opinion.  Your data point and these numbers would seem to strongly suggest that this would be the case.  There is one point that would make a bit of difference in the final analysis for the thorns situation; 2.3 would require the mob to hit the target to reflect damage while with 2.4 change the mob only needs to attack to get the thorn damage applied.  Regardless it still looks to be under performing.

Overall I don't care that much on the thorns skills since they do not fit my play style really.  I was planning to work up an information thread on the new mercanary changes.  Especially since I noticed that they gave some of the mercs new abilities that do not seem to be well balance for what the devs seem to have intended.  The act3 fire merc seems like it might be wack-a-noodle overpowered to other mercs when a gave a quick look over the hireling.txt information.  But due to short video done by Mrllamasc on the Holy Fire skill, I think my next dive will be to try looking at that skill and a few other bits of game information.

[myrdinn]

OK inflict damage to attack is a little improvement but is still inefficient

And I give the least serious example.
But if you take a MapLevel 85 monster able to do around 100 Dmg per hit (for some of them)
Assuming that thorn is physical and monster have 50% physical resistance in Hell
The result in 2.3 with SLVL1 is 100*2,5/2 = 125 compared to 16 (32/2) in 2.4
The result in 2.3 with SLVL20 is 100*10.1/2 = 505 compared to 173.5 (347/2) in 2.4

If I remember correctly, if you have damage reduction it is taken into account by the 2.3. This is the real damage taken that is reflected.
So in 2.3 numbers are at maximum what I calculate and probably less in real situation. And maybe to a point of both 2.3 and 2.4 are quite similar.

In my opinion, It is not enough to be used. They need to raise damage a little bit more