The Pace of the Game

[Archon_Wing]

At the moment, I'm almost about to quit unless 1.04 can make a change around. Thus, this is my last train of thought in an attempt to post constructive criticism because I believe there's still a non-zero chance to please the disgruntled people.

As I've posted before in my previous thread, that simply making loot drop better will not change things. We don't want the Diablo 2 item system either. You know those ridiculous runewords that can't be made without cheating? No thanks. Diablo 2 also dropped crap, but just happened to have more usable crap with a greater longevity.

The main thing about Diablo 3 I feel is that that the rush isn't strong enough in this game. We want to get the adrenaline pumping; it's a video game. Diablo 1 was a slowpaced game since you moved so slow, and packs were small, but everything was so frightening so that you were willing to take every step carefully. The tension was consistent. Diablo 2 was on a larger scale, where you dropped tons of monsters at the same time, and people loved it! The action was consistent. See what I'm getting at? Diablo 1 and 2 always set a certain pace that fit well with the atmosphere. It always got more crazier and hectic as you spiraled down into hell, but the gameplay remained solid and consistent.

So we must address the pace breakers: things that remove your control of the game and the potion cooldown. The reason why Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 could keep up the constant stream of action since you could charge into battles and gulp down those potions. But it's evident that unrestricted potion using made the game too easy.

All control imparing mechanisms should be telegraphed ala Diablo's bone prison. That way, if you get hit by it, you have nothing to blame but yourself. This means long cooldowns for boss abilities, and a casting delay that can be interrupted by hitting them hard enough.

I've already highlighted some suggestions in another thread. Vortex could create actual vortexes that suck you toward them. Jailer could create a forced arena with you and the boss. Invulnerable Minions should be ethereal. Actually, wouldn't it be fun if it were changed to "elite minions"-- yes, a unique monster leading an elite pack worth 2 valors? Sick, deadly, scary, yet beatable if we followed these changes.

In addition, monsters should stick to a certain area. They should not follow you halfway across the map to be picked off. This also allows the player some retreating room, but also harder to zerg a single member.

But Archon, that would make the game too easy! Which is why I think monster base stats should be buffed a bit. This way the threat is consistent and there's always something to do.

Now, let's talk about potions. Potion cooldown is not a bad idea, but the long ones in this game encourage a lot of running away while it comes back. This is one of the other things that causes lulls in the action. In my view, potions should have about half the cooldown they have right now, but in exchange are about 20% weaker and are more expensive to buy. Example: Mythic heals for for 9500 but costs 900 gold now.

Suddenly, you might see people trying to find those half priced vendors and O_O let's allow potion sales on the AH.

Speaking of stuff in a bottle, why do we only have only healing potions? What happened to those amusing grenade potions? Diablo 1 had disposable scrolls that acted like one use spells. Something like that on a cooldown would make for a wonderful commodity.

I think the stamina potion could use a comeback. There's no stamina in D3, so instead these potions increase your movement speed briefly. Once again, this is an item that would speed up the pace and decrease boredom, as we don't really move that fast in D3. If one wants to go out, let it be with a bang and not a whimper.

This isn't about making Diablo 3 more like its previous incarnations. But sometimes you don't want to reinvent the wheel. The goal is to have a game where the player's fate is within their own hands and said fate is worth caring about.

I'll just stick for that with now. We could get into the loot for now, but that's something that's been talked about too much, and suits the other thread better anyways. Feel free to post your own suggestions and ignore mine, or comment on mine.

[SkyDarkwind]

I agree that all control impairing effects should be somehow telegraphed. Mods like Frozen, Waller, Arcane Sentry, etc. all force you to make tactical decisions in the middle of a battle, or suffer the consequences. It makes elite battles feel like epic struggles ranging across the terrain, and makes me feel like my choices are leading to success. Even when they're beating my face in at first, Elite battles are fun for these reasons. However, stuff like Jailer and Nightmarish, you lose control for no good reason other than "it's time", and that's frustrating. There's no way to avoid them, no tactical decision you can make, other than to hope you're geared enough to be able to survive. The only option is to use a breaking skill like Smoke Screen or Serenity, which seems counter to the idea of "skill diversity" (For example, when I only have six skills to choose from, and Vault fits my playstyle way more than Smokescreen...but doesn't help break control effects, do I have room for a second defensive skill like that?).

As to potions, I really enjoy the Health Globe system. I've kept a piece of armor over a slight/moderate "upgrade" in other stats because it had the "+X bonus from Health Globes" affix. Again, it adds another layer of complexity in the middle of a heated battle with a pack. The affix that increases the radius of collecting globes/gold is kind of like the +light radius in D1; it sounds good and convenient, but it actually can be a hinderance, because it makes it difficult to leave the globes around in a fight/area and only collect them at the opportune moment, using something like Vault to get out of a fight to a saved globe. I've found (for me, at least) it keeps the pace going pretty well without too much of the running around, waiting for cooldowns. Maybe they could add an affix to gear that increases the chance for Health Globes to drop to help improve the ability to stay in the fight.

[ErickTheRed]

At first I didn't mind the movement controlling effects. Now I find them a bit too strong - they feel like they restrict my skill selections a too much.
I think most of the problem is the way the skills combine. There are restrictions that packs can't have two crowd control skills, but frozen isn't in the crowd control category. Frozen is fine by itself, but combined with fear things can get annoying fast. Illusions shouldn't be able to use the skills either. I'd like to see them be less stingy with the crowd control reduction affix on items. If all this was done I think things would be fine for characters that don't rely on kiting extensively.

Separately I'd like to see changes to help kiting characters. The game seems so rough on them and vortex/jailer etc is only part of it. I can see why they don't want fresh 60's to be able to kite too well, but why not have some gear affixes that penetrate the resistance to crowd control that inferno mobs get.

I wouldn't cry if the potion cooldown were reduced, but I'm not sure how much that would help.

The most interesting idea I've read is to throw out champion packs, and replace them with wandering boss monsters (kind of like uber diablo) that are more rare, easily skippable, and have very good loot drops. These could have the similar random abilities. The idea is that people who wanted to finish the game would face a smoother difficulty curve. In order to handle tough packs on inferno you have to be geared so well that normal mobs aren't a challenge. If you came across one of these wandering monsters you would want to kill it and be motivated to get gear that let you did it, but I want this to be less jarring to my normal play experience. High end farming would be playing through the game looking for these.

[Wessonality]

It's jarring to me that, if well geared, normal monsters are roadkill and champion/elite monsters can be so lethal.

Another suggestion: In harder diff modes, keep the number of affixes down but make the presence of affixes more common or much more common. So if you fell victim to a bad combination of affixes, it would be at least partly your fault. E.g. while kiting from some Molten goatmen, be careful not to back into a Frozen tree.

I also like the idea of the wandering boss monsters above.

[FireIceTalon]

At first I didn't mind the movement controlling effects. Now I find them a bit too strong - they feel like they restrict my skill selections a too much.
I think most of the problem is the way the skills combine. There are restrictions that packs can't have two crowd control skills, but frozen isn't in the crowd control category. Frozen is fine by itself, but combined with fear things can get annoying fast. Illusions shouldn't be able to use the skills either. I'd like to see them be less stingy with the crowd control reduction affix on items. If all this was done I think things would be fine for characters that don't rely on kiting extensively.

This is key right here. Never understood why Frozen is not considered a CC type ability, because it most certainly and blatantly is. It's really bad if it spawns with Waller, because you spend more time trying to escape and avoid being immobilized than actually trying to fight. And if the mob has shielding or extra health on them also, good luck not hitting those enrage timers.

But I think the combo that I am most sick of, and that is currently public enemy #1 on my shit list is Vortex combined with Arcane Sentry. This combo more than any other is empirical evidence that Blizz didn't take the time to properly balance traits (or Inferno period) - there are some abilities that shouldn't spawn together and these two are the prime example. I don't think there is any nerfing Vortex, it just needs to be removed from the game, plain and simple. It's annoying too because it seems A LOT of packs spawn with this combination. I had 3 or 4 of these packs in ONE area the other night, and they seem almost guaranteed to spawn at least once in every game. Hate it.

And I agree about kiting chars, I think JW and company are melee fans at heart and really have something personal against ranged classes, because typically melee classes are harder to play but in D3 it is the complete opposite - the game mechanics are especially brutal on DH's and Wizard's. They have the highest DPS potential, but in a game where you are forced to kite constantly, which makes your DPS drop like a rock, it becomes meaningless.

A 30-second CD on potions is asinine - especially in light that they only heal you for up to 12k hp anyway.

[Kurosu]

I don't think there is much point in offering suggestions, pretty much everything that can be thought of has already been mentioned one way or another.
Only thing to do is to wait for 1.04 or beyond to see where the future will take this game.