06-16-2006, 01:40 PM
Quote:>I don't have a beef with anything. I was replying to a post suggesting that a BOTD is a kiddie weapon. That to me is basically like saying that a King's/anything is a kiddie weapon in D1. Damn harder to get, of course.
Ah then if we're talking strictly about BotD, then let me kvetch on the subject.
To me a BotD is more like a D1 'rare' Godly plate of the Whale with all 3 (identical rings even) ObZod jewelry rolled into one, topped with a side order of Gnarled Root helm. Except made 'real', and yes a lot damn harder to get than any King's weapon like you said. It's like bliz looked at the worst ideas that was generated from D1, and thought it would be super awesome to do in D2 (eg: balance by rarity). And let's forget and ignore some of what D1 did right and amazingly well (hard to find things don't automatically mean=uberl33t).
And no, I've never actually used a real BotD, the only way I could experience it first hand without wasting a lifetime cubing up to a ZOD or trading was by using test chars via the cube mod in SP. But aside from the test Conviction\Avenger that rocked the mic and rocked the mic hard with an Ethereal Archon BotD staff, I was actually a bit underwhelmed by it. Especially in the light of the changes that 1.10+ brought. (even that Convict\Avenger still had to be careful in Hell\Flayer jungle, otherwise yes with that ethBotd l33t staff he Avenged anything and everything he saw with a fair amount of comfort and ease.)
However raw diggity physical damage for PvM is not what it once was in 1.10+. Even with the whacked out monster immunities, elemental\magic damage seems to be the way to go. Most of the melee builds I've seen that can do well damage wise in 1.10x PvM usually revolves around IAS speed, a high elemental damage and ctc effects, physical or another type as a secondary\tertiary backup, and something to halt some of the ridicilous monster HP regen rate (PMH, poison, OpenWounds).
My 'real' concentrator was retired at clvl 32, but I did try out almost all the popular (and not so popular) builds and gears for all classes via mid-high level test chars, and what I found was when it comes to melee builds, I'm addicted to speed. What killed my last high level test Berserker barb wasn't his lack of damage, it was his lack of speed dishing it out. I could slap on an eBotD, and it's a safe bet with it's 60% IAS it's botd for t3h w1n! But by that point I wasn't interested in trying out an Enzo Ferrari. I was more interested in finding a more relatively affordable alternative, you know like a Mustang. Though for some people anything less than a ZOD is relatively affordable I guess. I'm not one of those people.
BotD has imo, 4 awesome mods. The 60% IAS, high ED%, dual Life\Mana steal, and indestructibility for those ethereal l33ts. The rest of the mods is just gravy, rich and tasty gravy to be sure, but still just gravy imo. The PNova is actually more of an annoyance for me. The question for me is not, is it powerful, to me it's more is it worth the price of a ZOD plus change VEX in 1.10+ (I'm not talking about trading, I'm talking about the price of assembling it). For my money it's not. But considering the practical chance of finding\cubing up the runes, I might as well lose more sleep over choosing which residence to buy, Windsor castle or Buckingham palace.
My own biased view is one of the spiritual descendants of the D1 Kings weapon is, I said it before, the 'Crescent Moon' runeword. Decent enough IAS, fair to decent ED%, berry berry nice CtC Static Field, and 25% chance for Open Wounds. It's not a BotD, but it's a versatile and fairly affordable mid to end game weapon. Definitely endgame weapon if you're solo or SP, unless you're persistent or lucky in Nightmare. If we're going with the Ladder-Only runewords, then 'Obedience' and 'Oath' are also in the runnings in the fairly affordable high physical dmg weapon. (Alright 'Oath' might be in the higher end, but still within the realm of the probable).
What makes BotD labelled a 'kiddie' weapon imo, and this isn't the first time I've heard it called something like that, is mostly that pesky ZOD. Most l33t dudes (not you, I mean the people like Librarian mentioned who either don't care or unscruplous enough make these kind of it4mz from duped runes for online ladder) sees the highest rune, and therefore assumes it must be the best runeword because it uses one of the highest rune. Can't say I blame them since bliz did buy into that whole concept of 'balance by rarity' lock stock for quite a while. The need for a 6 socket weapon only fuels that expectation. Any 6 sockets weapons? VEX & ZOD?! This must be good to justify that kind of cost!
If it was half as good as some of the hype I've read from so called 'guides' = impractical wish list, my Act 2 merc would've cleaned up with it during my tests. But I found 'Doom' to be a better fit for him most of the time. Not that it really matters in actual real gameplay though, since the price of 'Doom' isn't much better than BotD. So imo, ZOD + the hype that tries to sell BotD as the absolute best under all circumstances is what makes it a kiddie-ish it4m. Which is why, to wrap up my rambling rant, some of the hype surrounding a BotD reminds me of the D1 days of some people claiming that a 3 set of Obzod jewels is the best setup possible, or why DemonSpike Coat is the highest AC armor in the game, because it's got 100 AC and that Unique gold lettering.
Let me put it this way. After experimenting with other builds along the way here and there, I realized a long time ago that the only fun Barb at least to me is a WW Barb. Concentrate is incredibly boring and completely unplayable in MP and if you go Frenzy, you might as well get yourself a Zealot, which is what I did. For a WW Barb, BOTD is by far the best weapon and the only one that makes a Barb viable in Hell MP. Around the end of 2002, I was saturated with the game already, so even when I did come back to it for several months at a time, I always dual-wielded even if it were less efficient... Before 1.10, you could still play perfectly fine without a BOTD, which is what I did, although in 1.09 it was already not a cakewalk. Once 1.10 rolled around, it was BOTD or go home, so I had 2 BOTDs just for the feel of it. Sometimes in a full game I would one of them away. As far as Zods.... bleh. I cared about that stuff in D1 and in fact all my warriors in D1 were completely pure from start to finish. D2 is different and besides, if by far the most fun I could have was using a weapon requiring a Zod, so be it. The rest of the ingredients (including Etherial CBs) were always found by me or cubed several times by me, and the Zod..... whatever.
However, my arguments to the OP pertained to either 1 or 2 weapons. I realize that I gimped myself by using 2, but my opinion is based on experience of using either combo. The only experience I do not have with Barbs is that of a singing Barb.... and I had no desire to try it..... ever.
-A