05-22-2003, 11:01 PM
A question for Hammerman or Myrdinn,
When the game is checking which a1_frames to use does it look it up by checking if the weapon is being used two-handed (checking the 2handedwclass field of weapons.txt) or does it just use the wclass field from wepons.txt reguardless? If it is the later case then all swords will always be using the 1hs a1_frames no matter how they are equiped. This is what seems to be the case from what the testers are claiming and would not surprise me at all from some of the other things that have been coded into the game before.
Tub, you left out some of the details on what you did for the testing. Did you modifiy the the Whirlwind skill to provide a 0% damage adjustment? If not, how much damage boost was derived from the skill? What weapons did you use for knowing the ranges on them?
However, assuming that you did set the WW skill to do 0% damage and using your following description:
You were a little vauge but I take it that at the slowest tested speeds you were taking 42 or 43 WW passes to kill a wendigo (breakpoint not pinned down as this is below the normal range one could get to).
Then for the -10 to +7 range it was taking 33 to 34 passes.
For the +8 to +33 range you were requiring 25 passes.
And for the fastest range (+34 and up) you were getting 17 WW needed.
The number that you are giving are working out to about the following:
Lowest range ~235 damage per pass or 2.3 hits per pass (odd amount to be getting but see final part for why it could be expected)*
For -10 to +7 (8 frame) this would be ~300 damage or 3 hits per pass.
For +8 to +33 (6 frame) this would be ~400 damage or 4 hits per pass.
For +34 and up (4 frame) this would be ~590 damage or 6 hits per pass.
*monster hit point recovery cannot be set to absolute zero, they will still be recovering a minimal percentage per frame of time. At 10,000 hit points and the amount of time that would be required to 40+ passes may have made it necessary to do 2 or 3 extra passes to make up for what they were recovering.
The last rate of 6 hits per pass at the fastest rate of attacks (4 frames) Suggest that during your testing the character was in range of the target for a period of time close to (or a little over) 24 frames of time. Now if we chart out for the various frame speeds when to expect the attacks to be made we can see what to expect for the number of hits to see in an interval of around 24 frames.
frame_____16_____14_____12_____10_____8______6______4
4_________xx_____xx_____xx_____xx_____xx_____xx_____xx
8_________xx_____xx_____xx_____xx_____xx_____xx_____xx
12________--_____--_____--_____--_____--_____--_____xx
16________--_____--_____--_____--_____xx_____xx_____xx
20________--_____--_____xx_____xx_____--_____xx_____xx
24________xx_____xx_____--_____--_____xx_____--_____xx
28________--_____--_____--_____xx_____--_____xx_____xx
32________--_____--_____xx_____--_____xx_____xx_____xx
XX denotes when an attack is checked.
table help from Jer at AB &$$@@@!!! invision boards!
Now the question how much lead distance was used to make a 'pass' and was it very consistent (doubtful as there was not a reason to think it was necessary).
Lets look at the expected number of hits from 3 cases.
first: all WW passes get the 4 through 24 frames checks.
frames....hits
16...........3
14...........3
12...........3
10...........3
8.............4
6.............4
4.............6
At 8 through 28 frames
frames....hits
16...........2
14...........2
12...........2
10...........3
8.............3
6.............4
4.............6
At 12 through 32 frames
frames....hits
16...........1
14...........1
12...........2
10...........2
8.............3
6.............4
4.............6
From the looks of this it appears the most of the tests ended up using the second case with some of the first case thrown in on some passes. For the highest 2 speeds this would make no difference and only a minor amount of difference at the 3rd speed. At the lowest speeds the difference would have been more more pronounced and would explain why the average ended up between the 2 expected values.
You can also get an idea of what to expect if someone were to using some of the slowest weapons on a WW that lasts longer than the typical attack against one or 2 monsters close together. You can also see what will happen when doing the Dance of Death with a single foe. Since you are using several very short WW runs, you can expect to usually be hitting the 4 and 8 frame counts which are automatic checks even for a very slow weapon. This lets the DoD simulate working at the highest speeds with most any weapon.
When the game is checking which a1_frames to use does it look it up by checking if the weapon is being used two-handed (checking the 2handedwclass field of weapons.txt) or does it just use the wclass field from wepons.txt reguardless? If it is the later case then all swords will always be using the 1hs a1_frames no matter how they are equiped. This is what seems to be the case from what the testers are claiming and would not surprise me at all from some of the other things that have been coded into the game before.
Tub, you left out some of the details on what you did for the testing. Did you modifiy the the Whirlwind skill to provide a 0% damage adjustment? If not, how much damage boost was derived from the skill? What weapons did you use for knowing the ranges on them?
However, assuming that you did set the WW skill to do 0% damage and using your following description:
Quote:What happened here ? If there was a cap between -20 and -19 on swords, the wendigo should have died a couple of ww's earlier. But it didn't. You might argue that 42 instead of 43 ww's per wendigo is faster, but the next cap jumped to 33-34 ww's, then 25, and past the cap at 34 I needed 17 ww's for a kill. 43 to 42 is nothing.
You were a little vauge but I take it that at the slowest tested speeds you were taking 42 or 43 WW passes to kill a wendigo (breakpoint not pinned down as this is below the normal range one could get to).
Then for the -10 to +7 range it was taking 33 to 34 passes.
For the +8 to +33 range you were requiring 25 passes.
And for the fastest range (+34 and up) you were getting 17 WW needed.
The number that you are giving are working out to about the following:
Lowest range ~235 damage per pass or 2.3 hits per pass (odd amount to be getting but see final part for why it could be expected)*
For -10 to +7 (8 frame) this would be ~300 damage or 3 hits per pass.
For +8 to +33 (6 frame) this would be ~400 damage or 4 hits per pass.
For +34 and up (4 frame) this would be ~590 damage or 6 hits per pass.
*monster hit point recovery cannot be set to absolute zero, they will still be recovering a minimal percentage per frame of time. At 10,000 hit points and the amount of time that would be required to 40+ passes may have made it necessary to do 2 or 3 extra passes to make up for what they were recovering.
The last rate of 6 hits per pass at the fastest rate of attacks (4 frames) Suggest that during your testing the character was in range of the target for a period of time close to (or a little over) 24 frames of time. Now if we chart out for the various frame speeds when to expect the attacks to be made we can see what to expect for the number of hits to see in an interval of around 24 frames.
frame_____16_____14_____12_____10_____8______6______4
4_________xx_____xx_____xx_____xx_____xx_____xx_____xx
8_________xx_____xx_____xx_____xx_____xx_____xx_____xx
12________--_____--_____--_____--_____--_____--_____xx
16________--_____--_____--_____--_____xx_____xx_____xx
20________--_____--_____xx_____xx_____--_____xx_____xx
24________xx_____xx_____--_____--_____xx_____--_____xx
28________--_____--_____--_____xx_____--_____xx_____xx
32________--_____--_____xx_____--_____xx_____xx_____xx
XX denotes when an attack is checked.
table help from Jer at AB &$$@@@!!! invision boards!
Now the question how much lead distance was used to make a 'pass' and was it very consistent (doubtful as there was not a reason to think it was necessary).
Lets look at the expected number of hits from 3 cases.
first: all WW passes get the 4 through 24 frames checks.
frames....hits
16...........3
14...........3
12...........3
10...........3
8.............4
6.............4
4.............6
At 8 through 28 frames
frames....hits
16...........2
14...........2
12...........2
10...........3
8.............3
6.............4
4.............6
At 12 through 32 frames
frames....hits
16...........1
14...........1
12...........2
10...........2
8.............3
6.............4
4.............6
From the looks of this it appears the most of the tests ended up using the second case with some of the first case thrown in on some passes. For the highest 2 speeds this would make no difference and only a minor amount of difference at the 3rd speed. At the lowest speeds the difference would have been more more pronounced and would explain why the average ended up between the 2 expected values.
You can also get an idea of what to expect if someone were to using some of the slowest weapons on a WW that lasts longer than the typical attack against one or 2 monsters close together. You can also see what will happen when doing the Dance of Death with a single foe. Since you are using several very short WW runs, you can expect to usually be hitting the 4 and 8 frame counts which are automatic checks even for a very slow weapon. This lets the DoD simulate working at the highest speeds with most any weapon.