01-17-2005, 09:53 PM
Hello Lurkers
No wishes to open up old wounds, so if this thread has been mostly resolved in the eyes of all parties, please disregard.
Some background on me:
I made the investment of time/energy/skill to become a GM of a guild about 6 months before D2 came out. I had played D1 and browsed LL at that time, but only really became interested in a game and the accompanying in-depth stategy enough to join when D2 came out.
At this time, there were a lot of great information coming out of the lounge. People who had dug into the code or tested certain aspects of the game enough to present facts that Blizzard itself got wrong or didn't mention.
When the D2 phase died down (I think it was about 2 years for me) I naturally stopped visiting the lounge much. It also went down at some point. I revisited and reopened a new account when I got bored and went to revisit D2. I was pleasantly sursprised to see the LL still here with many familiar faces.
What LL means for me:
The LL to me (and I would say a lot of people) is an intelliigent community with a few didicated games that they delve into the nuts and boltys of. I savor informational posts, new ways of playing the game, and different attack agles on problems faced in the game. To this end it is a gaming community.
What one joins WITHIN thse games is a guild. These differ from gaming communities in a lot of ways. Firstly, they are highly organized often with an organizational structure far removed from the boards. Secondly, and most importantly they require more commitments from the members. Many people could be long time members of the community and never post, to play in the guild and never participate would not be welcome me thinks.
Some places combine both of these aspects with good results i.e. AB (alhtough I have never gamed with them). Others only can only really do one feasably.
As is evident in this post, a community leader like Mongo is almost by default at odds with an in-game GM like Tal over several issues. Both are difficult positions, and as a former guild GM I must offer the following advice (assuming LL still wishes to be both an in-game guild as well as a community):
Advice:
To minimize the negative impact of bad apples, don't make people members until the whole community accepts them. Strict limitation through people who surviive a trial process approved by the GM and witnessed by as many members as possible should be the only way to gain entrance. Just because I am the son of a Lurker doesn't make me a good player.
Candidates should at a minimum possess a working knowledge of the basics of the game and if not should go to the lounge or to blizzard to get this. In addtion, they should conform to the either understood or posted rules that the guild sets up regarding coduct/looting etc.
If it were my guild, I would require both an introductory post (as well as continuing particiaption) on the guilds as well as a lengthy trial period where the individual grouped with other loungers. THIS SHOULD BE A PRE-REQ FOR MEMBERSHIP.
Having decided that this player would defiantely be an asset, as opposed to something two letters shorter, they could be invited to join the guild. This would facilitate a 2-3 tier structure similar to beta.
Conclusion:
I know it's been long winded, but I thought I'd try to present a different angle that would try to discover the wishes of the community in this sitaution as well as offer advice for possible solutions. Everyone I met in beta was not only helpful, but great fun to play with, and there's no reason why that shouldn't continue. I also really hate to see such a large rift go unchecked. Appologies for not browsing the thread earlier as I wasn't part of the in-game guild and thought this thread only had to do with that.
-MB
No wishes to open up old wounds, so if this thread has been mostly resolved in the eyes of all parties, please disregard.
Some background on me:
I made the investment of time/energy/skill to become a GM of a guild about 6 months before D2 came out. I had played D1 and browsed LL at that time, but only really became interested in a game and the accompanying in-depth stategy enough to join when D2 came out.
At this time, there were a lot of great information coming out of the lounge. People who had dug into the code or tested certain aspects of the game enough to present facts that Blizzard itself got wrong or didn't mention.
When the D2 phase died down (I think it was about 2 years for me) I naturally stopped visiting the lounge much. It also went down at some point. I revisited and reopened a new account when I got bored and went to revisit D2. I was pleasantly sursprised to see the LL still here with many familiar faces.
What LL means for me:
The LL to me (and I would say a lot of people) is an intelliigent community with a few didicated games that they delve into the nuts and boltys of. I savor informational posts, new ways of playing the game, and different attack agles on problems faced in the game. To this end it is a gaming community.
What one joins WITHIN thse games is a guild. These differ from gaming communities in a lot of ways. Firstly, they are highly organized often with an organizational structure far removed from the boards. Secondly, and most importantly they require more commitments from the members. Many people could be long time members of the community and never post, to play in the guild and never participate would not be welcome me thinks.
Some places combine both of these aspects with good results i.e. AB (alhtough I have never gamed with them). Others only can only really do one feasably.
As is evident in this post, a community leader like Mongo is almost by default at odds with an in-game GM like Tal over several issues. Both are difficult positions, and as a former guild GM I must offer the following advice (assuming LL still wishes to be both an in-game guild as well as a community):
Advice:
To minimize the negative impact of bad apples, don't make people members until the whole community accepts them. Strict limitation through people who surviive a trial process approved by the GM and witnessed by as many members as possible should be the only way to gain entrance. Just because I am the son of a Lurker doesn't make me a good player.
Candidates should at a minimum possess a working knowledge of the basics of the game and if not should go to the lounge or to blizzard to get this. In addtion, they should conform to the either understood or posted rules that the guild sets up regarding coduct/looting etc.
If it were my guild, I would require both an introductory post (as well as continuing particiaption) on the guilds as well as a lengthy trial period where the individual grouped with other loungers. THIS SHOULD BE A PRE-REQ FOR MEMBERSHIP.
Having decided that this player would defiantely be an asset, as opposed to something two letters shorter, they could be invited to join the guild. This would facilitate a 2-3 tier structure similar to beta.
Conclusion:
I know it's been long winded, but I thought I'd try to present a different angle that would try to discover the wishes of the community in this sitaution as well as offer advice for possible solutions. Everyone I met in beta was not only helpful, but great fun to play with, and there's no reason why that shouldn't continue. I also really hate to see such a large rift go unchecked. Appologies for not browsing the thread earlier as I wasn't part of the in-game guild and thought this thread only had to do with that.
-MB
-< You can only be young once, but you can be immature forever >-