My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod
#20
(Long, verbose post with several paragraphs. You were warned!)

Now that I've had a chance to complete one full game on Normal difficulty with this mod, I wanted to share some thoughts on it. My overall impression is quite positive. While I realize the author, Marsh, didn't make it clear if he'd consider working on this any further, I also want to offer some suggestions for other issues the mod might address.

What's great about it

NO FRIENDLY FIRE
I've played many games with Rogue partners, and while I've always appreciated Diablo's relatively high difficulty compared to many of the ARPGs that followed, I've never much cared for the guilt and blame associated with slaying fellow players in the heat of battle, or suddenly discovering that my new purpose in life is to be a walking quiver.

So, despite the fact that the removal of friendly fire removes one element of strategy from the game in positioning your character not to hit teammates, and trying not to obstruct bow/spell users line of fire, I found it rather refreshing to simply dash around and hack things to pieces with no worry whatsoever about being annihilated by one shot from a Rogue's elemental bow. This was my first time playing a Barbarian in Hellfire, and I don't think I ever would of considered it without FF disabled!

I can see this being of some concern to someone playing as or with sorcerous types, as Friendly Fire is really the only thing preventing multiplayer Sorcerers and Bards from eradicating rooms full of foes in seconds. I suppose they could switch to Player Hostile to ensure spells damage friends, if they can't otherwise restrain their destructive potential.

THE STASH
To be fair, I admit to not being a big fan of mods that change the functionality or gameplay in any major way, and I seldom ever transfer items between my own characters, preferring to build them all up individually. In that light, I can't say I'm too crazy about the included stash plug-in for the purposes of transferring items between characters. I do, however, appreciate being given that option, even if I won't use it. I like options.

That said, as a pack rat that would usually fill the town with extra items every game until it was time to stop, keep what seemed most useful and sell the rest off, I cannot understate how much I appreciate having this stash feature. No more worries about items lost forever due to loss of connectivity or power. No more hauling around 140,000 gold just in case Griswold or Wirt sell something invaluable. Thanks for including this, Marsh! I didn't even know it existed.

OTHER PLAYERS ON MAP
This needs no explanation really. Due to a quirk in Diablo's engine, however, you will see arrows for other players in incorrect locations while they are transferring between levels. The arrow will mark their previous location on the level they're coming from relative to the current level. But as soon as they're free of the loading screen it resumes working properly.


Other thoughts

WARLORD OF BLOOD
It's neat that one of the single player only quests works properly in multiplayer, but should it be enabled just because it can be? The results may yield mixed reactions from players. Some of you may view these as pros, others cons.

In single player, most quests had a 50% chance of being present or active in any one game. In multiplayer, this chance is 100%. That means that Level 13 (Hell 1) will always contain the Warlord of Blood, and as a result, much like Level 15 (Hell 3, Lazarus) the layout of the level will be about identical each time you play the game. Furthermore, that also means that groups of Steel Knights will always be present as one of the level's foes, and that there's always going to be a ton of magical loot guaranteed by the stairs down to Level 14 in the Warlord's Chamber.

One of Diablo's great strengths as a game after all these years, in my humble opinion, comes from the random levels and mix of enemies you are pitted against. So while I was happy to see the Warlord in multiplayer, I feel rather neutral on its addition overall.

OILS
Hellfire's oils are nice, and the effects seem to carry over properly between multiplayer games (though, strangely, similar effects granted by Hellfire's shrines do not seem to carry over between games), but I do wonder if a few specific oils are perhaps overpowered and am unsure if they should be enabled in multiplayer. Let me name them specifically and explain why:

Oil of Sharpness (+1 max damage, up to an average damage of 30)
Oil of Death (+1 min, +2 max damage, up to an average damage of 30)
Oil of Imperviousness (+3-5 AC, up to 120)
Oil of Skill (decreases all attrib requirements by 5-10, down to none)

Sharpness/Death: I don't think that physical damage does not need any more damage potential than the character's base stats and usual equipment already allow. I never seem to have trouble with damage output on characters that are meant to be doing melee, and if I'm using melee on one that isn't, I accept that it's not going to be as powerful as a Warrior or Barbarian. That's just part of the game. A bow Rogue may not have the crowd control ability of a Sorcerer, or be able to carve a path through foes as fast as the Warrior, but I've never had much problem with her killing speed either if you work up Dexterity and use the right bow for the job. And Hellfire's characters with triple strike probably should never have their paws on these oils.

Imperviousness: A 175% Saintly Full Plate could yield 330 Armor Class with this. That by itself is the equivalent armor class of three perfect Godly items: Godly Tower Shield, Godly Great Helm, and Godly Full Plate Mail (60/45/225), and unless something changed in Hellfire I don't think you can even obtain Godly Full Plate Mail legitimately. Let alone that you can improve virtually any FPM with any armor bonus using these oils up over anything you're likely to find unless you're one active Diablo player, it seems like a bit much. But I only ever found one of these oils in my game, whereas I had almost an inventory full of Sharpness and Accuracy oils, so perhaps the concern is unwarranted. I'm fine with the weaker AC oil that only improves up to 60 AC; it would be fun to upgrade leathers or mails up with a Godly armor bonus from Wirt just to get a unique character look, and up to 180 possible AC, which is the equivalent of a very nice FPM from Griswold.

Skill: I've always looked at the equipment requirements as an added challenge in equipment selection if I want to wear heavy armor on my Rogue or Sorcerer. I find it more satisfying than the idea of being able to wear plates more or less for free if I find a couple of these oils.


These are just my opinions, I like all the other oils given their current functionality. But if this were my mod, I believe I would disable the weapon damage bonus oils, maybe knock the Imperviousness oil down to a maximum of 75 AC if I didn't disable it, and I'd probably remove the Skill oil too. Of course, if you agree with me and feel they are perhaps overpowered, there is always the option of not using them, or using them modestly. Smile


Issues remaining, minor requests
All that said, here's some problems present in this version of Hellfire. If the author is still working on it, or willing to, I enjoyed this mod enough that I'd be happy to see some of these ironed out as well. Some of these are unique to Hellfire, some are unique to the older version of the Diablo engine that Hellfire is based on, and some are unique to this mod (vs Hellfire or Hellfire Fixed).

BALROG INFERNO BUG
In Diablo v1.09, Balrog Infernos begin in the square immediately in front of the Balrog, allowing it to strike a character within melee range. In Hellfire, Balrog breath always starts one square further than it should, yet the Balrog uses it against foes at melee range even though it always misses. Ideally this should behave like Diablo v1.09 where the Inferno starts closer, but if that's not possible, perhaps the AI could be changed so that they always choose to melee a target that close, giving their breath attack the benefit of added range.

MP MONSTER CLONES WITHOUT DOPPELGANGER
I believe this was an issue in older versions of Diablo, but in my multiplayer game I saw slain enemies very quickly come back to life as if the last hit that just put them in their death animation a moment ago didn't properly register. This monster is a ghost to other players, but will continue to harass and attack the local player until it is killed, at which point it rewards experience again to that player and drops a duplicate item which the game doesn't remove like it does when players drop dupes. I'm uncertain of the cause but it always seems to happen before the death animation finishes, almost as if... say the monster has 20 hp left, and I hit 25 damage, and it starts to die, then I hit it again before the death finishes for 8 damage, and it pops back to life as if it didn't lose the 20 health and it now has 12 health. That make sense? I could be wrong but that's my best guess.

COFFIN/BARREL GLITCHED MONSTER SPAWNS
This is really rare, and another issue I think goes back to older versions of Diablo, but occasionally I see a monster generated from opening a sarcophagus or destroying a barrel that behaves quite strangely. The monster is invisible to other players and is cloned, as in, two identical copies of it appear and move, animate, and attack simultaneously, always facing the same direction. They do not act independently. The monster cannot be targeted or harmed in any way and will not highlight under the cursor. The only fix is to leave the level by stairs or portal, then come back, and it seems to have disappeared. The monster can strike and kill you like any normal one, though.

WARLORD OF BLOOD BOOK READING
When the quest book for the Warlord of Blood is opened, all other players begin reading the book as well regardless of distance. Once the book is opened, every time any player returns to that floor, immediately they begin reading the book again regardless of their distance to it. I think both of these problems are from the same problem; when the book's state changes to "open" all players are assumed to be reading it, and whenever the level loads, it remembers the book has been accessed and sets it to open, and so it is read again.

v1.09 LEVEL GENERATION BEHAVIOR
The older Diablo engine here uses level generation behavior that is antiquated. In v1.09 for example you never see stairs in the Dungeons make an indentation in rooms behind the stairs. While I don't know what all Blizzard changed in the level generation code since Hellfire, knowing that they DID change it in patches is enough to perhaps warrant an attempt at implementing their newest version of it in Hellfire, if possible (assuming, of course, it doesn't cause serious issues for Hellfire's new dungeons).

HIVE (possibly Crypt also) SYNCHRONIZATION ISSUES
This seems to occur in all versions of Hellfire, HF: Fixed etc. Sometimes one of the random seeds used by Diablo's level generation does not seem to be properly communicated in multiplayer. While the level structure is identical to all players, the actual placement of items, containers, and enemies is totally different. Enemies self-correct their positions (you will see more skipping around as players come into activation range), but the rest does not; you'll hear pods exploding when none are visible, chests being opened in the distance when everyone is near you in sight, etc.

This wouldn't be a big deal, but unfortunately the games start arguing over what items exist, and the host seems to win these arguments, which means other players can't pick up items they see dropped (which don't exist) and things start disappearing on their screens.

I never saw this in HF Fixed, but also, 3 floors of the Hive were colored and laid out identically. Each floor, room, unique enemy location was precisely the same. Perhaps that was a freak thing, or maybe the Hive level generation behavior in this mod is Horked somehow.

HELLFIRE QUEST ITEM SYNCHRONIZATION ISSUES
All quest items issued by Hellfire NPCs behave strangely. The Rune Bomb disappears on the local player's screen when used, but all other players see that player drop the Rune Bomb. The reward amulets (and presumably the Bovine Plate, if one were to enable the cow quest) disappear on the local player if they aren't the host, and only the person that spoke to the NPC even sees the item drop.

CRYPT ENTRY
Probably well known, but opening the Crypt with the Cathedral Map is wholly unnecessary. Simply step on the right location near the entrance, and in you go. Since Diablo's policy in MP is to keep all areas open for entry, I can't say that I don't prefer it this way. Perhaps the Crypt should always be open, just like the other nice locales?

LONG WAR BOW GRAPHIC
Blizzard has a unique graphic for the plain Long War Bow, which is styled with some blue designs on the ends like the Short War Bow, but due to an oversight the graphic was never used, and Long War Bows use the Long Battle Bow graphic. I believe HF:Fixed corrected this issue. I'd be happy to see this bug fixed in your mod as well.

LICH DEATH ANIMATION SPEED
Hellfire Fixed sped up Lich death animations, which, now that I've seen the original again, I have to admit I rather appreciated. There's something to be said for knowing an enemy is dead quickly, and some of Hellfire's animations aren't so great about tha with several flailing around clumsily in what could be mistaken for attacks before they finally keel over. Er, sorry, bit off topic! I don't expect the author, or anyone really, to redo the monster graphics to fix that. But speeding up the Lich death anim would be nice!

'ENTER' KEY DOES NOT WORK ON DIFFICULTY SELECTION MENU
When creating a multiplayer game, for some reason this keystroke is broken in Hellfire. It works fine in Diablo v1.09. While this may not bother some players, if it can be fixed that would be great, as it's the equivalent of a speed bump on a freeway to me!

HELLFIRE MONSTER SFX
One thing Hellfire Fixed did that I had forgotten how nice was replacing some of Hellfire's abysmal screechy monster sounds with stock sounds from Diablo, namely in the Crypt (Devil Kin Brutes, Tomb Rats, Hellfire Bats). My ears would truly be thankful to you for making similar changes. But please don't make Adria moo like a cow again! She has a wonderful line of dialogue that starts with "Hello, good friend!" that the HF:Fixed author, in my opinion, really would of been much better off selecting as a replacement instead (just clip the rest of the dialogue after those words out and presto).



----------

With all that said and done, I want to commend Marsh for his excellent work on this little mod. Were it not for the sounds (which I may attempt to modify myself), I would rate this mod 4 out of 5 and proudly announce that it would soon replace Hellfire: Fixed on my hard drive. That's no barb at the author of HF: Fixed, I'm just trying to stress how much I appreciate the changes and bug fixes made here that the former overlooked.

I strongly encourage Marsh to give this a little more polish where possible (I think I highlighted more than enough possibilities!), or if not, to provide whatever source files or documentation he has (if any are necessary) to help someone else duplicate and expand upon his work. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the work put into mods for Diablo, Hellfire and many other games, but first and foremost I always like to have a "fixed and enhanced" version that stays true to the original (if such fixes/enhancements are warranted). This, so far, is the closest I have to that for Hellfire.

If you can tolerate Hellfire's original screechy monster sounds, and are a Hellfire fan, I would highly recommend this based on my play through. Now, excuse me dear reader, but I have lurking to attend to. Thank you, and enjoy!
Reply


Messages In This Thread
My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Marsh - 09-16-2011, 07:53 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Rudra - 09-16-2011, 08:16 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Marsh - 09-18-2011, 12:44 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by lyyn - 09-19-2011, 06:09 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Rudra - 09-27-2011, 09:27 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Zenda - 09-28-2011, 11:39 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Marsh - 09-29-2011, 08:11 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Rudra - 11-08-2011, 03:24 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by BrecMadak - 12-10-2011, 08:42 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Belix - 12-19-2011, 07:11 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by voxvox - 12-20-2011, 12:01 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by voxvox - 12-21-2011, 01:29 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by IceMage - 01-07-2012, 05:00 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by wkd1 - 01-13-2012, 03:13 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Rudra - 01-13-2012, 10:21 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by wkd1 - 01-15-2012, 06:50 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Kal - 02-12-2012, 07:43 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Belix - 02-20-2012, 12:55 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Thenryb - 02-22-2012, 04:15 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Belix - 02-26-2012, 07:06 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Belix - 05-30-2012, 06:24 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Mordor - 07-19-2012, 03:41 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Belix - 07-19-2012, 06:38 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Mordor - 07-22-2012, 08:29 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Mordor - 07-24-2012, 06:53 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Marsh - 07-30-2012, 12:24 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Belix - 07-30-2012, 08:06 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by gugutz - 05-07-2013, 04:13 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by gugutz - 05-17-2013, 02:27 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Hessin87 - 07-06-2013, 11:55 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by qualakon - 07-23-2013, 06:51 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by duner - 07-30-2013, 03:08 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Belix - 11-18-2013, 03:21 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Belix - 12-04-2013, 11:24 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Belix - 12-06-2013, 12:44 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Belix - 12-07-2013, 01:16 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Belix - 12-08-2013, 11:58 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Belix - 12-16-2013, 12:41 AM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by fhansen - 03-05-2014, 09:59 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Belix - 02-02-2015, 08:37 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Belix - 05-21-2016, 06:46 PM
RE: My Unofficial Hellfire 1.02 Mod - by Meat - 06-10-2017, 03:41 AM

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)