thinking cap
#41
Vandiablo,Apr 7 2003, 08:56 AM Wrote:combining their posts, not them

Reading Pete's layout of his/our confusion, he talks about the seed being stored as "zero" but reading Jarulf it looks like the value stored for a shrine seed may be a NULL, which is different (or at least can be). If you copy a zero to a memory location, you overwrite the old value there. If you copy a null, you don't copy anything, and you do no overwriting. (Depending on the language, and that may be wrong for assembler, I don't know assembler.)

So, my understanding, from reading Jarulf's post:

1. Game created-- all shrines created -- all seeds for shrines have memory space allocated but have no value assigned to them (NULL).

2. The character enters the dungeon. The memory for "current level" is filled in with the previously created "dlevel" 1, 5, 9, or 13. For this initial level, all shrines seeds will be null, which is read as zero, if I'm right. This level will cut yer shield, cut yer CL, or raise yer dex at the 3 shrines we've mentioned.

3. The character enters another dungeon level. State flags are saved for the dungeons (except for trap doors, due to the Van Trappe Fanomaly as pointed out by Thecla) somewhere for later retrieval. The "new level" is pulled into the "current level" memory area. The memory space for the shrine seeds on this level is not overwritten. This memory space is most likely at a different address than the shrines for the previous level. This memory space still contains whatever it did for the last level, which was not necessarily a shrine seed. It can contain either "junk" or "null junk". If the junk is null, you will still have the shield/CL/dex effect. Otherwise, the shrine will pretty much be random.

4. The character returns to the first level (which was dlevel 1, 5, 9, or 13). A shrine that was previously "null" seeded may now have a somewhat-"random" seed, though there is still a chance for the null effect. This is because there is still "junk" from the second level that was not overwritten when the first level is brought back. If the "junk" was null, you still have the effect.

5. Evidently, given the number of ppl who claim that the shrines were random for them, the odds of a null-seeded shrine continues to descend with successive levels. However, I am thinking that there shouldn't be that much difference between 2nd and beyond. It would depend on how much non-zero data is typically stored in the "current level" memory area, and if there is other "null copying" than shrine seeds.

This information (as I think we realized years ago) could be used to cheat. If you find one of those shrines in the first level you do, you know what will happen.

It's kinda funny though that you will get different shrine  effects from the same shrine depending on what your previous dungeon level was. Also, it's funny that it could vary from player to player, since they could have different histories. Ah, if only my testing apparatus were still assembled....

-V
Yes, that is as far as I know a correct description on how it works. As for what can occupy the shrine "location" in memory, well, anyobject on a dungeon level. That would be chests, sarcophagus, decapitated bodies, bodies on poles, barrels, book shelves, skeleton tomes and so on. That is, anything you find in the dungeon that is not a monster or an item or part of the dungeon itself :) All those that can have items droped or some effect attached to them will have a seed correctly saved, others will not. No real idea on the ratio about the ones with a seed and those not though.
There are three types of people in the world. Those who can count and those who can't.
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Messages In This Thread
thinking cap - by jet - 03-08-2003, 03:39 AM
thinking cap - by the Langolier - 03-08-2003, 04:57 AM
thinking cap - by Virgil Tibbs - 03-08-2003, 06:31 AM
thinking cap - by !!SaLtMaN!! - 03-31-2003, 01:48 AM
thinking cap - by LemmingofGlory - 03-31-2003, 02:42 PM
thinking cap - by --Pete - 03-31-2003, 03:24 PM
thinking cap - by !!SaLtMaN!! - 04-01-2003, 12:30 AM
thinking cap - by Elric of Grans - 04-01-2003, 01:06 AM
thinking cap - by --Pete - 04-01-2003, 01:17 AM
thinking cap - by LemmingofGlory - 04-01-2003, 01:25 AM
thinking cap - by Elric of Grans - 04-01-2003, 01:33 AM
thinking cap - by --Pete - 04-01-2003, 01:46 AM
thinking cap - by LemmingofGlory - 04-01-2003, 02:31 AM
thinking cap - by !!SaLtMaN!! - 04-02-2003, 04:41 AM
thinking cap - by the Langolier - 04-02-2003, 08:30 AM
thinking cap - by Jarulf - 04-02-2003, 12:22 PM
thinking cap - by --Pete - 04-02-2003, 09:50 PM
thinking cap - by !!SaLtMaN!! - 04-03-2003, 10:58 PM
thinking cap - by Vandiablo - 04-04-2003, 06:41 AM
thinking cap - by Elric of Grans - 04-04-2003, 06:55 AM
thinking cap - by Vandiablo - 04-04-2003, 07:29 AM
thinking cap - by Jarulf - 04-04-2003, 07:58 AM
thinking cap - by Thecla - 04-04-2003, 10:42 AM
thinking cap - by --Pete - 04-04-2003, 03:15 PM
thinking cap - by LemmingofGlory - 04-04-2003, 06:07 PM
thinking cap - by Jarulf - 04-04-2003, 07:58 PM
thinking cap - by Thecla - 04-05-2003, 02:28 AM
thinking cap - by --Pete - 04-05-2003, 03:02 AM
thinking cap - by Vandiablo - 04-05-2003, 07:21 AM
thinking cap - by Thecla - 04-05-2003, 08:31 AM
thinking cap - by --Pete - 04-05-2003, 04:00 PM
thinking cap - by Bolty - 04-05-2003, 06:31 PM
thinking cap - by Jarulf - 04-05-2003, 08:12 PM
thinking cap - by --Pete - 04-05-2003, 08:42 PM
thinking cap - by Vandiablo - 04-06-2003, 06:03 AM
thinking cap - by Elric of Grans - 04-06-2003, 07:20 AM
thinking cap - by Jarulf - 04-06-2003, 08:58 PM
thinking cap - by Thecla - 04-06-2003, 11:27 PM
thinking cap - by Vandiablo - 04-07-2003, 08:05 AM
thinking cap - by Elric of Grans - 04-07-2003, 08:09 AM
thinking cap - by Jarulf - 04-07-2003, 04:33 PM
thinking cap - by --Pete - 04-07-2003, 05:51 PM
thinking cap - by Vandiablo - 04-15-2003, 04:38 AM
thinking cap - by Zenda - 04-16-2003, 02:15 PM
thinking cap - by Dixen Andomiel - 04-17-2003, 06:28 AM
thinking cap - by Yogi_Baar - 04-17-2003, 07:19 AM
thinking cap - by Cytrex - 04-17-2003, 10:36 AM
thinking cap - by LemmingofGlory - 04-18-2003, 02:05 AM
thinking cap - by Vandiablo - 04-18-2003, 06:29 AM

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