Vaelastrasz the Corrupt

[Kevin]

I'm not sure how the Paladin-Shaman difference somes into play here, but in the way we do VtC, the only priests that end up healing the tanks are the ones in their groups - the 2 tank groups look like: Tank, Tank, Warlock/Imp, Priest, Shaman(FR,STR,WF totems). the ~4 other Priests we bring go into each group, with our two best-geared/specced druids taking the last 2 groups.

All the other shamans/druids not healing their group have two jobs: keep FR totem down and heal the current tank. The 5-6 shamans and spare druids spamming lesser healing wave on the tank is more than enough to keep him alive.
The two real keys to the fight are:
1. Practice for the melee classes(rogues need to be able to FEEL the zone where they maximise DPS and stay off the top of the aggro list, and warriors need to KNOW exactly where they are on the aggro list, and time the transitions perfectly)
2. Luck with BA. If we get three priests BA'd in a row, it's a wipe, even now. A fight with 3 mages and a couple warlocks, however, gives you a huge advantage (One thing to not underestimate is the sheer amount of damage everyone can do while BA'd - get to your safe spot and blast away. This significant damage will turn the tide if your DPS is marginal to do the fight in&nbsp; < 3 minutes.)
Hope that helps a little bit =]
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Our tank groups were warrior, warrior, priest, paladin, imp totem (after we tried warrior, warrior, warrior, paladin, imp totem a couple of times).

The shaman and paladin differences become noticable in this fight though. Shaman have flash heal. Base lesser healing wave is 880 health per cast. Base flash heal is 885 health per cast and they get the same benefit from + healing gear. So there is no practical difference. Paladins 1.5 second cast heal, flash of light, even with blessing of light up is 420.5 health per cast for the base spell. You don't want to rely on their 2.5 second cast heal alone either. So you need to do clever things with your druids or have priests to do it, or what not.

As for the aggro. I'm not thinking it is as big a deal for DPS as people claim.

On our last attempt according to my numbers I ran at 154.3 DPS, another tank at 168.4, another at 141.8, a DPS warrior at 254.0, and two other tanks at 128.1 and 91.4. I did have burning adrenaline for a bit but that DPS makes sense for me with the weapon and gearing I have. Paper Doll show it at 84.0 DPS in defensive stance. Heroic Strike adds 138 damage per attack and my attacks are 1.5 (or faster when the claw procs) and I have a 10.65% crit chance in my Vael tanking gear. So without crits or an Eskhandar's proc I should pump out 118 DPS with just HS bonus damage and the weapon base is 48 DPS. Two of the 35 swings I got in were not HS but regular attacks (so I missed 2 jams on HS). This is all before armor of course.


Form here: http://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/index...topic=6293

1. Shield Slam - 1950 total hate.
2. Revenge - 1370 total hate.
3. Sunder Armor - 1050 total hate
5. Heroic Strike - 890 total hate
- Regular physical damage in def stance (with defiance): 4.0 hate per point of damage.
- 1 Hate = 1 point of healing by a Priest with 20% threat reduction talent.


So if we look at that. My hate generation is
Damage: 150 x 4 = 600 hate/s (cut the DPS a little bit)
Heroic Strike: 890/1.5 = 593.33 hate/s (Eskhandar did proc a couple of times and that actually gets my attack down to 1.05 seconds)
Sunder Armor: 1050 hate/s (once a second with global cooldown lets call it 1000 H/s for missing a key now and then.

So ~2200 hate/s or 2200 healing per second that a priest can do if they have subtlety. This is why a healer really shouldn't be pulling aggro in that fight. And that is a bit lowballed for my hate generation. If I get fancy I could replace one of the sunders with a shield slam every 6 seconds that would up my DPS a little (by about 8 ) and give me a little boost to pure hate (about 150/s). Revenge is every 5 seconds as well but again with universal cooldown you have to replace a sunder with it so that could be thrown in there as well for a bit more hate boost (65.4 hate/s) but you are once again messing with timing and 2200 hate/s seems fine.

But unlimited HS (20 rage/s makes it unlimited) is why a high DPS fast weapon is so good and how with just the 30% hate reduction of salvation I took aggro form another warrior on the first attempt.

The run I lost aggro to another warrior in, I checked my data and I was trying to be fancy with shield slams and revenges in there and missed more HS chances and probably lost time on the other instant attacks. Keep it simple. I can do crazy hate generation in this fight with just HS and sunder so I stuck with that. The other warrior backed off on the next couple of attempts but I'm not sure they needed to now.

I get a 45% boost to hate per point of damage and 65% over warriors in battle or zerker stance. So for everyone else they should be doing 2.2 hate per damage point and battle/zerk warriors should be 1.4 since there is a 20% reduction in threat in those stances. I'm not sure what battle/zerk and defiance do to the innate hate of an attack like sunder armor though.

So that means a rogue, warlock, mage, druid, priest, etc should be able to do about 1000 DPS without pulling aggro from me in this fight and that is before salvation. A warlock hit 740.4 (got BA'd and had insta cast shadow bolts) and a rogue hit 406.7 no one else got above 400 in my numbers. Neither of them pulled aggro before a warrior died so it seems like the theorycraft fits the data even figuring in the salvation bonus the warlock was still ~518 DPS.

If my theorycraft holds I don't see how anyone but another warrior has any chance at aggro, salvation or not.

Two of our tanks have Bloodlord's Defender's I know. Those are 1.9 speed with pretty much the same DPS as Eskhandar's.

That would put them about 125 hate/s less than me all else being equal from the HS hate/s. I was running at about 500 attack power unbuffed.

Deathbringer being about 8 DPS more would be about 254 hate/s less just based on the HS hate/s difference and giving it 8 DPS more.

Anyway just giving some theorycraft to this encounter. Feel free to find the obvious errors I made that I'm not seeing.

But if you put a really fast weapon like an Eskhandar's on the tank and they just spam Heroic Strike and sunder armor I don't see how another class can do enough damage to get aggro. As you can see a slower weapon like a deathbringer really starts to drop that hate generation as you can't apply heroic strike as fast. 254 H/S is about 115 DPS for another class.