Shouldnt Bush be impeached for spying on US citize

[Occhidiangela]

The Act is specific and it states that it is illegal to spy on a naturalized citizen, ie, someone either born within the US or it's territories and has maintained citizen status or someone that has gone through the steps and completed them to become a US citizen.  The only time a warrant is required, by FISA, is when a US citizen is involved.  It's easy enough to check someone's status as a US citizen AND retroactive warrants can be applied (as has already been done previous to Bush).

Bush broke the law as based on FISA by simply wire tapping US citizens and not getting a warrant (which he could have got retroactively, but choose not to).
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Noted.

Renewed every 45 days, Senators/Reps from both parties briefed on eight different occasions, or more often. David Rockefeller's letter was heavily edited in the version I read today.

George Will asked the best question:

Perhaps the brief argues, as its author, John Yoo -- now a professor of law at Berkeley but then a deputy assistant attorney general -- argued 14 days after Sept. 11, 2001, in a memorandum on "the president's constitutional authority to conduct military operations against terrorists and nations supporting them," that the president's constitutional power to take "military actions" is "plenary." The Oxford English Dictionary defines "plenary" as "complete, entire, perfect, not deficient in any element or respect."

The brief should be declassified and debated, beginning with this question: Who decides which tactics -- e.g., domestic surveillance -- should be considered part of taking "military actions''?

This has apparently been going on for over two years, with full knowledge of members of the Senate Intelligence committee. Why the hubub now? Why not when it first started? Silence is consent, or rather, complicity. Rockefeller covered his own backside, and that is about it. See

Washington Post  December 20, 2005  Pg. 10  Senator Sounded Alarm In '03
Rockefeller Wrote Cheney to Voice Concerns on SpyingBy Charles Babington and Dafna Linzer, Washington Post Staff Writers

I am not content that this action is as cut and dried as you think it is, but it may be a violation of the law anyway.

As to "naturalized citizens," Lissa, I was not referring to legal residents, but rather our sub-population of illegals. Ten million and counting, and sadly, that is only via estimates. It could be as high as 30 million. They drive, they don't get insurance, and I am sure some use cell phones.

That concern is a bit of a red herring in this matter, however, as the tension between Congress and the President is eternal and part of the Constitution's design. I will be carefully watching the arguments in the next few days on why the Administration counsel felt it was legal, and why, now, someone has chosen for political reasons to bring this out in the open, at the risk of compromising operations underway.

I smell a case going to the Supreme Court.

This disagreement of a law's interpretation goes to the core roles of Executive versus Legislative Branch. It also touches on authorities conferred during a war, even though Congress' "authorization to use force" is NOT a declaration of war. If these intelligence activities are necessary to find and fix the enemy, so they can be killed or captured, is it within the rubric of "conduct of war?"

There is a category of activity called espionage, and fifth column activity, that is not legal for citizens to undertake. I don't give a hoot about illegals, though I imagine most agents have some sort of cover/documentation to allow them some freedom of action.

How is probable cause determined?

I am still trying to understand how Clinton's staff briefed this when no war was underway and got approval. There was probably a good reason. I am sure there is a good article on that somewhere.

Occhi

Note the language of the authority during time of war:

Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the President, through the Attorney General, may authorize the use of a pen register or trap and trace device without a court order under this subchapter to acquire foreign intelligence information for a period not to exceed 15 calendar days following a declaration of war by Congress.

Notwithstanding any other law, the President, through the Attorney General, may authorize electronic surveillance without a court order under this subchapter to acquire foreign intelligence information for a period not to exceed fifteen calendar days following a declaration of war by the Congress

.

And regarding Business records

The Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation or a designee of the Director (whose rank shall be no lower than Assistant Special Agent in Charge) may make an application for an order requiring the production of any tangible things (including books, records, papers, documents, and other items) for an investigation to obtain foreign intelligence information not concerning a United States person or to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities, provided that such investigation of a United States person is not conducted solely upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment to the Constitution.

We shall see. I think the loophole surfing is "if a call comes from non American person who is on the 'need to find out what he is up to list' and comes to an 'American person' who isn't, does this immediately establish probable cause?

Most likely not, all manner of innocent activity such as ordering a train ticket, ordering a pizza, et cetera) does not put the citizen into a probable cause of aiding and abetting the foreign or terrorist. But how do you know until you check the call and find out "ah, that was an order for a triple cheese supreme, this was a call to ship the det chord."

Occhi