Paladin Concern Summary

[Kevin]

You know, thinking about it more, the biggest reason for this (with druids) is that their talents give them unique abilities.  They don't just add to abilities you already have.  Feral Charge is awesome to have as a bear, it's like intercept without having to stancedance.  Last night against The Beast, people said they didn't even see me get punted (I was showing about halfway up on my screen before I charged back in).  Faerie Fire (Feral) gives the druid pulling.  LotP gives druids an aura.

There's additive talents, sure, but there's also more talents that give new stuff instead of just making current stuff better.  I guess it just boils down to my belief that, among other things, the Protection tree needs a taunt talent.
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Yep. The protection tree needs a taunt of some kind.

There are a few transformative talents for the paladin and most of them are now in holy. And if you consider what was done for the druid with some similar talents the paladins are even more screwed.

- Consecration is the only AoE that paladins have for non undead. Druids had a hurricane as a 31 point talent as the only way for them to get AoE but it was moved to a base talent. For paladins this ability was moved from a 21 point retribution talent to an 11 point holy talent.

- Spiritual Focus + concentration aura makes paladins the only healers that can cast heal spells through damage until the mana pool runs out. Priests with focused casting can do this for 8 seconds out of every minute. This is a transformative talent for a healing paladin though, or at least for how you can play the game solo.

- Divine Favor + Illumination is kinda transformative. A free on demand crit heal every two minutes is nice. This was moved from needing 11 points in holy to 21 points in holy. However druids and shaman that spec for it can get nature's swiftness which is an instant cast heal every three minutes. Priests that spec for it can get inner focus that is a free heal with 25% crit chance once every 5 minutes. The other healers had these talents at 21 points, which is why the paladins was moved. The location of the priests talent is also part of what is wrong with the holy tree. That should be a holy tree talent just like it is for all other healers.

- Holy Shock being the only ranged attack that paladins can use on all mobs is somewhat transformative as well. It is a 31 point holy talent but is still rather weak (it is now a bizzare targetable single enemy holy nova)

- Blessing of Kings is a new skill via talents and while it is a helpful blessing and potentially as powerful as blessing of salvation in raids, if they want a blessing to be talent based, it should be salvation in the protection tree as keeping your party members from getting aggro is powerful tanking tool. The new shaman totem should also be a talent choice in the enhancement tree. Of course the issue with this is raid guilds forcing specs to get this on their shaman and paladins.

- Blessing of Sanctuary is a new skill via talents but again it isn't transformative. It does help the tanks becuase of returned damage on blocking, but so does a shield spike. The damage mitigation is not significant enough.

- Seal of Command is a new skill but in all honestly because of proc rates and the way it and seal or righteous scale, the do essentially the same amount of damage over time even with the new judgements (since command needs a stun). It is also subject to the whim of the PRNG

- Vindication sure it's a new ability via skill, kinda like vengenance but again subject to PRNG and really not much different than the other stuff like sword spec for other classes or reckoning in the protection tree.

- Eye for an Eye see vindication.

- Repentance gouge for a paladin essentially. Not worth 31 points as it doesn't do much for the character.


Where should a paladin be? Well it has to be compared to a shaman as the faction specific class and it should be compared to the druid as a hybrid class. There are 4 main roles a hybrid can take. DPS, Healing, Tanking, and Buffing/Curing. Let's look at the 3 classes for this.

# Healing: Druids are better than both shaman and paladins in PvE healing. Paladins and Shaman spec'd or unspec'd are pretty much equal in the PvE. Shaman have some good ways to mitigate incoming damage via totem usage (resistance totems, stoneskin totems), they have heals that are equivalent to a priests flash heal and druids healing touch. Paladins have good ways to mitigate incoming damage via aura's and judgements and blessings (judgement of light is more a damage mitigator to me) Blessing of protection if great for AoE casters, blessing of sacrifice can slow incoming damage enough people to keep them alive and allow you to heal up after the encounter. Mana pools in healing gear are similar for shaman and paladins. Ability to heal through damage are similar for shaman and paladins (but greater for druids). Heal spec paladins and heal spec shamans are very likely better healers than feral or balance druids, assuming all classes are geared for it (which in the case of all three means they are likely wearing leather and cloth)

In PvP it's trickier. Shaman have a more powerful fast heal, along with an instant cast big heal every 3 minutes if they spec for it. Paladins can heal through damage if spec'd for it and all paladins can bubble to heal once every 5 minutes these both make them pretty powerful healers in PvP. Druids have an insta cast HoT and other slow heals, they are not as good at PvP healing though they do add to healing power and have some tricks, but you are better off with other classes main healing and druids doing other things.

Though healing through damage and the bubble when used correctly make a heal spec paladin a more timely healer in PvP (note I didn't say more powerful and I can't make that judgement without more PvP experience with both classes) but a shaman that uses their tricks to heal in PvP is pretty tough too, as alliance I'm glad that a lot of them don't. Without spec to heal the shamans fast cast good healing level heal is excellent if the shaman has a little protection or other players. If spec'd for healing a well placed natures swiftness heal can turn the battle. Paladins without healing spec can bubble and heal wich can turn a battle and if they haven't done so in the last hour can lay on hands and turn the battle but the timer on that heal makes it not reliable as a tide turner in PvP. They also have weak fast cast heals. If spec'd for healing they need less protection (they still need it like other healers to stop stuns, silences, etc) to heal. Keep in mind that druids and priests need protection to heal as well. Though druids, like shaman, if spec'd can turn the battle with a well timed nature's swiftness heal. Because of the nature of PvP I would say that paladins "shock healing" may seem more effective because they are better able as a healer to turn the tide of battle. But then again that 1.5 sec cast heal that saves someone in a small skirmish on the way to a flag can be just as important in the overall outcome and the shaman's faster healing is more likely to do that, it's just not as noticable. Regardless both are better PvP healers than druids.

# DPS - With no talent points spent all three classes are going to be about equal. The druid and the shaman will have more control of their DPS though and if they can't heal they are able to switch to DPS mode more easily. If you spec for melee DPS it goes druid > shaman > paladin. If you spec for castable/ranged DPS it goes druid > shaman > paladin. Shaman and paladins both need to use mana to increase DPS if a shaman doesn't burn some mana when in melee range they are not going to beat paladin DPS. Druids choose if the DPS is via mana usage or not. Shaman get talents that transform playstyle in how they can deal both melee and castable DPS (2 handed axes and maces is a talent otherwise only 2 hander is a staff), flurry and stormstrike also change melee DPS delivery via talents. Like other casters than can lower cast times and mana costs and up critical damage and chances of spells they do not have any transformative talents but the additive properties, like mages and balance druids add up nicely. Paladins deliver DPS in one fashion and as mentioned their talents don't transform the ability of how they can do it or even really how much they can deliver.

# Tanking - Unspec'd it is druid > paladin > shaman. This is an overall evaluation of taking a beating and holding aggro. Without talents the shaman due to better damage control, pulling, and aggro abilities can control things better, however without talents they can not sustain the beating nearly as well, really no better than a hunter because the hunters ability to parry along with higher dodge rates make up for the lack of a shield (remember shamans have to spec to learn parry). When spec'd for tanking it becomes more interesting. The druid becomes better at aggro control and damage mitigation from talents. The shaman can pick up parry, imp shield block, and anticipation for extra damage mitigation and they do make a noticable difference in how well they survive, they will also pick up some more DPS skills (flurry, better weapon buffs) on that path which will help with aggro control a bit more. The paladin can pick up even more damage mitigation skills, on par with what a warrior can pick up, however they don't get a lot more in aggro control skills and some the mitigation and aggro control skills (reckoning is an aggro control skill via higher DPS) require the paladin to take a crit hit to kick in. As a main tank with a party working with them the paladin is better than the shaman. Both can MT the high end 5 mans but the party has to be more focused and in tune with them, both need CC, paladins to help with aggro control, shaman to help with damage mitigation. As off tanks though the shaman wins due to superior aggro skills (shocks, stoneclaw, rockbiter weapon) since damage mitigation on an off tank is not as important.

# Buffing/Curing - Druids bring a powerful buff to the table and can clear poisons and curses. Paladins bring powerful buffs to the table and can clear poisons, disease, and magic effects. Shaman bring powerful group only buffs to the table and cure poison and diseas and clear their group of some magic effects (like sleep and fear). In 5 man it goes paladin > shaman > druid. In raids it goes paladin > druid > shaman. All druids and most paladins abilities are cross party. Most shaman abilities are party only.

# Fluidity/Utility to all groups - Shaman are the most fluid, they are best at performing all the roles at the same time they can get a gear set with decent defense and weapon damage that adds mana to give them healing, they will have to burn more mana in this gear set to keep up DPS which limits healing but sets can be made. Druids can get gear that will allow them have a decent mana pool and still do decent damage in feral form or tank well enough on damand or deliver ranged DPS on demand at cost of mana pool they are not as fluid because doing one job locks them out of other jobs. Paladins since a huge part of their DPS is gear based even with the 1.9 changes have a much harder time getting a gear set that can keep DPS reasonable while allowing them to effectively heal. They can get DPS and tanking combo gear pretty easily but the mana pool hit is huge. Since druids and shaman can use mana to create DPS they are not as affected by this. Paladins if they could get the gear would be as fluid as shaman but since the gear is harder to do, because you need str, agi, and int along with armor (shaman can get away with just int and armor to be effective). Paladins can get all purpose suits but they are not as effective as what shaman and druid can put together because of damage delivery mechanisms. All gear choices will limit effectiveness at any roll of course and my early evaluations assumed gear choices to maximize the job they are doing.


Summary
Healing- Druid > Paladin = shaman
DPS- Druid > Shaman > Paladin
Tanking- Druid > Shaman > Paladin
Buffing/Curing- Paladin > Druid > Shaman
Fluidity/Utility- Shaman > Druid > Paladin

So on the things that most people feel matter the most the druid wins, spec'd for it or not. The shaman however is better at or equal to the paladin in most everything else. Tanking is tricky area, I put shaman ahead because generally you only ask your 3rd best tank choice (and warriors and druids are better) to be an off tank or you are expecting to move slower have more inter party dependencies and the shaman and paladin are pretty equal there, but shaman are better with aggro control making better off tanks. The only thing paladins are better at is tedious role that most don't find a lot of fun in. They are worst at the role that most people find most appealin in a hybrid, utility and fluidity.

Shaman and druid talents also give them more ability to specialize the class than paladin talents do.

I don't think healing abilities of any of the hybrid healers are out of whack. Druids can be priest replacement without spec'ing for it, and paladin and shaman, if spec'd to heal can be a priest replacement in all the 5 mans at the very least and quite possibly even in raids for just healing power. Though I think the shaman heals are better in raid situations than a paladins but paladin curing is much stronger. Shaman do need a rework of their restoration tree though no other hybrid gets as little out of the healing spec and sacrifices so much else as the shaman.

Tanking Druids are fine with talents to go for tanking (though they get both DPS and tanking from one talent set). Paladins should get some form of ranged attack and some form of snap aggro, prehaps the same skill a high aggro instant cast 20 yard ranged ability at 31 points? It will take mana from you but like an earth shock for shaman (the improved threat skill is pretty close to improving rockbiter for aggro control). Shaman also could use something that will help with damage mitigation to make them more viable as tanks on instance bosses. I keep thinking a stance like ability or a 5 to 10 minute self buff that ups armor and threat but lowers damage like defense stance. If you give paladins an instant aggro taunt, you would also have to give one to shaman. Paladins though need a way to generate faster aggro than they have, but you have to keep it balanced with the shaman and the method of better damage and aggro control vs damage mitigation trade off they have now doesn't work.

DPS wise the paladins still need a better way to convert mana to DPS though I have no problem with these methods being buried more deeping in retribution or holy, especially if you have a deep protection talent for ranged and aggro. Holy paladins kind of have a way to do this with holy shock it helps to allow them with the new judgements to use one gear set and do alright at the healing and DPS roles (this is part of the reason I'm thinking of going 31 holy now). But a retribution spec paladin who will not have the tanking or healing abilities of enhancement or elemental shaman, needs to be as viable a DPS choice as the equivalent build shaman. DPS shaman can be very close to DPS druids (though I don't see them as well off) a DPS paladin needs to be as well, and 1.9 a DPS paladin has been worse than a DPS paladin in 1.8 for me because they haven't quite balanced the control vs the damage curve yet. I actually wasn't all that upset with 1.8 DPS for a DPS spec paladin though I would like to see a few more ways to turn mana to damage to help with it, like shaman have. Heck putting seal of command deeper upping the damage bonus on swings and upping the damage it does when you judge it would fix a lot of that. With the way it and righteousness work now they are not really different talents. So give the damage paladins their better DPS, put it at 21 points to make it choice for the builds. I think they thought sanctity aura was supposed to really help with the pally DPS but it's not good enough and since it can help priests out too they are afraid to make it better (though a holy damage spec priest is a rare thing but I can see some some set-ups that could make the 21 point retribution paladin with this aura and holy priest not fun in PvP). So make it a self buff that ups holy damage by 20% and cuts healing by 20% or something and make the mana cost enough that just shutting it off to heal is a real choice if want to get it back like a druid shapeshift cost, some percantage of total or base mana, that would up retribution paladins DPS by about 5-6% (since only about 30% of their damage is holy damage even with the new changes) and you don't have it helping the few other sources of holy damage in the game. It makes paladins that burn mana via judgements better at the burst DPS too (the repentance -> judge crusader, stun - judge crusader is supposed to help with this which is a mechanic that players don't really find works well).


So if you have read this long long post I thank you. I do believe the paladin class can be fixed and stay with the same kind of play style that 1.9 will introduce and make people happy and I think it can be done through talents, but again they need to put some new talents in the protection and possibly retribution tree. Consecrate should probably be a base skill especially after what they did with druids AoE. I'm not sure about kings going to a base skill it's a powerful raid blessing that ups survivability via HP and MP and adds a little DPS via the AP and crit chance it adds. It makes a difference and shaman have nothing that is remotely equivalent. So having to choose to get it makes sense. I like it as an 11 point talent because holy paladins that up their healing will have a hard choice in getting it because some of the retribution talents can help them with solo DPS as well.

I'm not saying the changes don't help things but they also hurt some things without enough compensation. I've been looking at it a lot the last couple of days and they are not as far away as I once thought they were. They need to make a choice on how well they want paladins and shaman to be able to tank though because I think they are making decisions based an a bizzare way to balance that out, which makes the shaman more fun to play and the paladin less.