Posting lyrics and scores online is a crime!

[Jarulf]

As to the rest, I never could understand why the theft of literature, software (including games), and other intellectual properties is wrong,

Typically because most countries has laws against stealing things. If you steal a book from me you would typically commit some sort of crime (lets disregard the ammount we steal here as that may have importance in some cases for the definition of the crime and so on). The same if you steal one of my games, my vacum cleaner, my car or many other things I have.

I am a bit unsure what you mean about "intellectual property" though (and even more with the "other" part. It is really a very innappropriate naming but typically people refer to such divers things as copyright, patents and trademarks when they use it. Considering the context, I would assue you mean copyright but I admit that I have never heared anyone ever stealing a copyright. You have an example? Still baffled about the "other" part though. What extra do you put into it that no one else do? And why not write, for example copyright if you mean it?

but the theft of musical intellectual properties is right.

I am still a bit confused on your terminology here.

The way I see it, the creator of the work owns it.

Depend on what you mean by "own" and what you refer to by "work". Of course, it also matters if you tell your opinion or tries to tell what the legal stand point is.

Typically a "work" can't be owned at all, you can get copyright to it though. That does not mean you own the work at all though, you only have a few defined (by law) rights to it. They are VERY different to what applies to "owning" though, and that is why the "intellectual property" naming is so bad since copyright (for example) has basically nothing in common with normal property, for one, you can't own it and second, the rights that prevents others from do stuff, is things that does not apply to normal properties.

If you refer to individual COPIES of a work (it is a very different issue, I will give you link to the definitions from the US copyright laws since I believe you are american at the end of this post) then the situation is different. Those are indeed properties and of course are owned by whoever creates them. Typically, but not always, this means the copyright holder since they are the ones who normally can make copies. However, others can make copies too, for example due to various fair use provisions. In those cases, the copyright holder will NOT be the owner of the copy when it is made. Those copies can then be given away, sold and so on so that someone else becomes the owner of them. The transfer of such ownership has nothing to do with the copyright holding and the change of one does not imply the other (see link I provided). This is yet another reason why "intellectual property" is such a bad thing to call it since copies of a work are indeed normal property and normal laws and such applies. Hence you can indeed "steal" a copy of a work, but not nessecarilly form the copyright holder but from whoever ownes that copy at the time.

What I believe you actually are refering to when it comes to "theft of music" and such above is thus not really theft at all unless you talk about people running arround stealing copies of the work (for example the CDs) from peoples home. I have never heared that would be right either by the way. I assume you talk about the creation of NEW copies, that is copying, which is copyright infringement. That applies equally to music and the lyrics that is made to it (two seperate copyright by the way and when tossed together and performed there is a third copyright on that performance by the way).

  If he wants to give it away

Give what away? The copyright or individual copies? The copyright holder can give away the copyright, but I assume you mean individual copies? If he is no longer in possession or the owner of them, the copyright holder can't control or prevent that (in most cases). That is, I am free to give away a music CD or a book I have. If you talk about making NEW copies, that is something very different of course. But in that case, it does not typically matters if he gives it away or not, however, the giving away of such new copies might be an addition infringement though.

(e.g., freeware and copyleft-ed material), that's his choice.  If someone else gives it away without his permission, then that's theft.

See above. Are you arguing that giving away something is theft? How on earth did you come to that conclusion? So if I give you my vacum cleaner without some permision (from the manufacturer?) I commit theft? I am not aware of any country with such laws. Same with a music CD (for example), I don't need any permision to give it away from anyone. I think you have missunderstood the law.

I also fail to see what this has to do with the initial topic, of peeople making copies of a litterate work and making such copies available to the public, one or both of which is probably copyright infringement. If others then make copies out of that, they might in addition also commit copyright infringement. There would be no "giving away" going on at all though, yet a lot of possible copyright infringement.

  People who engage in large scale theft belong in jail.

Typically anyone who commit a crime for were there is a possibility by the law to get sentenced to jail would be long in jail. How you logically came to this conclusion from your previous text I levae as an excersize to the other readers though, there are so many holes in it that it probably can be a thread in itself :)


As to the original topic, yes, it is most likely copyright infringement in most cases to put out copies of the lyrics on the net. I read that there has been an appology from the music studio/person though for their complain:

http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,69856,00.html

Still what is legally right or wrong might not always be the same that is acceptable or ok to do.



Ohh, and the link I promissed above:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/usc...01----000-.html