11-14-2005, 07:08 PM
Arathi Basin n00b Experiences
Strategy, too!
I am posting this here in this thread rather than create a new one, thus resurrecting it! However, I have not read a single post in this thread yet and will go back up to read, because I'm interested to see how my thoughts as a n00b battlegrounder compare to the veterans.
I want to make Sergeant with Cleoboltra. The 10% discount to all things sold by faction NPCs is just dandy - most everyone points out how it will save 100 gold on an epic mount as the largest saving, and that's true. However, 10% off on anything else I ever buy is a nice perk as well. Now that PvP ranks are never "demoted" off your character, once you make Sergeant you'll have that discount for life.
Not that I'll stop PvPing after I hit Sergeant; I just won't care about ranks and such. I have seen the reports of the grind required to get past rank 7 and how it basically requires you to consume your whole life to it - no thanks. I'd rather raid with the Lurkers.
Do I have a point? Oh, yes. This weekend was the Arathi Basin holiday weekend, so I played about 7-8 matches to build up some honor. I'm aiming for Sergeant after two weeks and I hear that's not difficult to get due to Blizzard's leniency in getting the early ranks. Hopefully I'll be Corporal on Tuesday.
This was my first foray into the Battlegrounds, and it was everything I wanted - fair, controlled PvP action hot and heavy. And of course my talent build was horrific for PvP, but I was there to have fun and did so, actually HEALING my teammates (gasp) and playing psychic scream disruptor/rogue SW:P annoyer. I think I actually got 2 or 3 killing blows or so, which surprised me! My damage output is terrible.
In short, I am a n00b that any serious, dedicated battlegrounds PvP'er wouldn't want on their team. I can't melt faces, I can't silence, I can't stun, I'm basically just a heal battery that any smart enemy would plaster first in any engagement (and the Horde obliged with gusto, much of the time). Since I was only going to abuse the system and get Sergeant rank, then, tough noogies!
If you're not familiar with the Battlegrounds or the Arathi Basin, please read here for some background info, or else what I wrote below won't make much sense to you:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battleg...nfo-arathi.html
I'll regale you with some (probably unwanted) anecdotes before moving on to the strategies:
1) My first match ever wound up being a hell of an indoctrination to the Arathi Basin. I got in a match with a dedicated PvP team that apparently had a few spots they had to fill with pubbie n00bs like me. The leader was Reaperz, a Marshal on Stormrage, who Knew His Shizzle, took charge, and we plastered the Horde BAD (I think the final score was 2000 to 150 or so). "Oh hey, this is easy," I thought, and immediately entered the queue again.
During this fight (and every fight thereafter) my main goal was to hold one of the five strongpoints (gold mine, farm, blacksmith, stables, lumber mill). I was much better suited to playing defense rather than offense due to my talent spec and character design, and I knew it. I also lacked an epic mount, so I couldn't get around as quickly as the roamers or attackers - so I'd be better used on defense. Plus, being on Reaperz' team showed me right away how to dominate the map by holding the strongpoints, and I got to see how effective playing good defense is as the Horde players would keep throwing themselves at our controlled defense to no avail.
All other matches I played were in pick-up raids. Some were successful, some weren't, and it doesn't take long to figure out why. As with PvE pick-up groups, you usually know in the first minute or two if you're in for a smooth run or a steaming turd.
2) Nothing gets the enemy more excited than seeing an exposed Priest standing around. Oh noes! But what happens when that lone Priest standing at the gold mine flag is actually guarded by a shadowmelded Night Elf Druid and Hunter? Hilarity ensues.
This worked literally 3 or 4 times in just one match. Some Horde would be traveling along the ridge above the gold mine, look down and just see my lonesome self guarding the flag, and come ripping down to own me. I shield, wait for the charge/stun/gouge/sheep/whatever, and watch as my two guardians unstealth and plaster the poor attackers. By the time they recover from the surprise assault, it's over. I think I had a Basiner in on that one with me, but I don't recall the name.
3) One pick-up raid was obvious from the start it was going nowhere. Everyone stood around asking "what's the plan?" Nobody said one, so everyone just kinda roamed around killing and being killed. We got slaughtered that game, of course, against the organized Horde group that at one point came SO close to actually owning ALL 5 strongpoints. Needless to say, the honor gain that run wasn't so hot.
4) I won a match 2000 to 1980. That was friggin AWESOME. Great groups on both sides in a match that went back and forth like crazy. Definitely the best experience of the weekend for me. If the match went to 2050 points the Horde probably would have won, since at that moment they controlled more strongpoints.
5) One fight amused me in particular. A frenzied battle over the blacksmith flag was ensuing, and for once I wasn't the primary target of the invaders (cause they were dumb, of course). Since they left me alone, I did my usual psychic scream thing to disrupt the attack, and then started actually healing. I think the attackers were so surprised they didn't know what to do (expecting me instead to mind flay/silence/what have you). By the time they recovered from the shock of seeing an Alliance priest actually healing her comrades, it was too late and their attack was smashed. The even better part was the reaction of my teammates who /hugged me for the heals. They aren't used to it either.
6) MongoJerry hates Paladins. I got a firsthand look at why during a match where I was once again guarding the gold mine - just me and a Paladin. Five Hordies came down the path and I knew death was imminent - for me, at least. The Hunter and two Rogues made short work of me and I waited for the graveyard to spawn me, figuring the Paladin would be toast shortly thereafter. Nope. That one bloody Paladin held the strongpoint and prevented FIVE Horde from getting it during the 15 seconds I waited for respawn. I respawned, ran back, and just as the Paladin was about to bite it I Shielded him, flash healed twice, cast renew, and died again in a hail of gunfire and stabbity death. Waiting again for respawn, I came back to see that as the Paladin was dying, 6 Alliance members came riding in to obliterate the invaders. One Priest and one Paladin held off five Horde from taking the flag for about 40 seconds.
Enough with the anecdotes, time for some STRATEGY!
If you haven't figured out from my anecdotes from now, the proper strategy for the Arathi Basin isn't particularly difficult. It's a 15-player zone, and there are 5 strongpoints to control. If you control 3 and your enemy controls only 2, you win. From my limited n00b experiences, I see that there are three main roles for any party member to play in the Arathi Basin:
1) Defender. Holds a strongpoint against attacks. If attacking force is too large to handle (usually the case), the defender announces the attack to the raid and then attempts to survive/disrupt the attack long enough to prevent the enemy from assaulting and capturing the point before reinforcments arrive. The goal isn't to kill an attacker so much as it is to keep them busy until help comes - they simply have to hurt anyone touching the flag to disrupt the assault. If the attacking force isn't large enough to threaten the position, kill the attackers and /taunt their fetid corpses.
2) Roamer. The Roamers join the Defenders at first in order to take the initial positions. They then go to where they are needed to hold the positions. As the Defenders call out for help, the Roamers get in gear and charge down to defend the post. Defenders must keep Roamers informed of what's going on until they arrive - after all, if the attack is a feint, the Roamers don't want to cross over the whole map to find the REAL attack is on the other side.
3) Disruptor. The Disruptors are a pack of a few players who will do their best to annoy and disrupt enemy organization. This can be done by swift attacks on enemy strongpoints to distract the enemy from getting a solid attack going, sniping any solo enemies running around, and irritating the foe.
The more experienced PvP'ers in your group should be Roamers and Disruptors. n00bs or This also goes for gear, and especially those with epic mounts should be Roamers.
Classes that would suit certain roles well (theoretically, any class could fit in for any role though):
Paladin: Defender. I mean, duh. See anecdote #6 above. Paladins are just BORN to stop invaders from taking a strongpoint and irritating the hell out of them.
Priest: Defender if healing-spec'ed, but would make a great Roamer if talented for PvP well. There were some fights where I'd just stand still and heal myself constantly while the enemy would try desperately to kill me - while my Alliance buddies were then wailing on the poor bastard. For a healing spec'ed Priest, that can be your best move (sans SW:P on rogues to prevent them from vanishing) - do what you're good at, not hit the enemy for a pitiful Mind Blast!
Rogue: Disruptor and Roamer. Can be wicked as a Defender to lure attackers into a trap, but since we're Alliance we can have any Night Elf shadowmeld to do the same thing.
Warrior: Roamer. You want a Warrior leading every charge when a strongpoint is being attacked. Get in there and bash some heads, and if you're lucky the Warrior will be focused on by the attackers instead of squishier teammates in back.
n00b evaluation on general strategy: as I've mentioned earlier, if you hold three locations while the enemy holds 2, you win. So the focus seems clear from the start. With a raid of 15 people, each group will hit one point at the beginning and secure it. Once secure, the defenders (2 per group, maybe 3) will hold the position and the roamers move to where they are needed - either one of the three initial points is being contested too much or an attack is imminent on a defended point. The disruptors head out to start attacks on lightly defended enemy points or just to annoy the enemy (charging headlong into an organized enemy attack heading to its destination is a great way to screw it up).
Hold the three points. You may lose one from time to time as it's assaulted, but if the enemy never takes control of the point (they have to own it for a full minute IIRC) then you're always in the lead. The key is discipline, which almost all pick-up raids completely lack in PvP. Everyone must know their role and stick to it - the temptation to abandon your defended post to help out against an attack elsewhere is high, but doing that plays right into the enemy's hands. They'll just keep shifting their assaults around, and your team is forced to react constantly, always staying behind. If you hold your points and keep annoying them, then they're forced to react, get frustrated, etc.
I would love to see a Lurker team assembled to do some Battlegrounds. Believe me that with a group of 15 PvP newbs that are organized vs. a group of varied-experience PvPers playing randomly in a pick-up raid, we'd slaughter them every time. Yes, if 15 of us still new to PvP run up against a highly experienced Horde PvP group, we'll get owned, but we can still have fun anyway in the process (and learn a few things).
Anyhow, those who have quite a lot of PvP experience here (e.g. Quark, Mongo, Artega, etc) can probably add a lot more to this discussion. This is just what I picked up after a few matches, and it's things all said before: that in Battlegrounds, teamwork is the key, and n00bs playing as a team can still dominate experts not playing well together.
As usual, hope you enjoyed the read. I'll see you next weekend in whatever BG has a holiday - Sergeant discount for the win!
-Bolty
Strategy, too!
I am posting this here in this thread rather than create a new one, thus resurrecting it! However, I have not read a single post in this thread yet and will go back up to read, because I'm interested to see how my thoughts as a n00b battlegrounder compare to the veterans.
I want to make Sergeant with Cleoboltra. The 10% discount to all things sold by faction NPCs is just dandy - most everyone points out how it will save 100 gold on an epic mount as the largest saving, and that's true. However, 10% off on anything else I ever buy is a nice perk as well. Now that PvP ranks are never "demoted" off your character, once you make Sergeant you'll have that discount for life.
Not that I'll stop PvPing after I hit Sergeant; I just won't care about ranks and such. I have seen the reports of the grind required to get past rank 7 and how it basically requires you to consume your whole life to it - no thanks. I'd rather raid with the Lurkers.
Do I have a point? Oh, yes. This weekend was the Arathi Basin holiday weekend, so I played about 7-8 matches to build up some honor. I'm aiming for Sergeant after two weeks and I hear that's not difficult to get due to Blizzard's leniency in getting the early ranks. Hopefully I'll be Corporal on Tuesday.
This was my first foray into the Battlegrounds, and it was everything I wanted - fair, controlled PvP action hot and heavy. And of course my talent build was horrific for PvP, but I was there to have fun and did so, actually HEALING my teammates (gasp) and playing psychic scream disruptor/rogue SW:P annoyer. I think I actually got 2 or 3 killing blows or so, which surprised me! My damage output is terrible.
In short, I am a n00b that any serious, dedicated battlegrounds PvP'er wouldn't want on their team. I can't melt faces, I can't silence, I can't stun, I'm basically just a heal battery that any smart enemy would plaster first in any engagement (and the Horde obliged with gusto, much of the time). Since I was only going to abuse the system and get Sergeant rank, then, tough noogies!
If you're not familiar with the Battlegrounds or the Arathi Basin, please read here for some background info, or else what I wrote below won't make much sense to you:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battleg...nfo-arathi.html
I'll regale you with some (probably unwanted) anecdotes before moving on to the strategies:
1) My first match ever wound up being a hell of an indoctrination to the Arathi Basin. I got in a match with a dedicated PvP team that apparently had a few spots they had to fill with pubbie n00bs like me. The leader was Reaperz, a Marshal on Stormrage, who Knew His Shizzle, took charge, and we plastered the Horde BAD (I think the final score was 2000 to 150 or so). "Oh hey, this is easy," I thought, and immediately entered the queue again.
During this fight (and every fight thereafter) my main goal was to hold one of the five strongpoints (gold mine, farm, blacksmith, stables, lumber mill). I was much better suited to playing defense rather than offense due to my talent spec and character design, and I knew it. I also lacked an epic mount, so I couldn't get around as quickly as the roamers or attackers - so I'd be better used on defense. Plus, being on Reaperz' team showed me right away how to dominate the map by holding the strongpoints, and I got to see how effective playing good defense is as the Horde players would keep throwing themselves at our controlled defense to no avail.
All other matches I played were in pick-up raids. Some were successful, some weren't, and it doesn't take long to figure out why. As with PvE pick-up groups, you usually know in the first minute or two if you're in for a smooth run or a steaming turd.
2) Nothing gets the enemy more excited than seeing an exposed Priest standing around. Oh noes! But what happens when that lone Priest standing at the gold mine flag is actually guarded by a shadowmelded Night Elf Druid and Hunter? Hilarity ensues.
This worked literally 3 or 4 times in just one match. Some Horde would be traveling along the ridge above the gold mine, look down and just see my lonesome self guarding the flag, and come ripping down to own me. I shield, wait for the charge/stun/gouge/sheep/whatever, and watch as my two guardians unstealth and plaster the poor attackers. By the time they recover from the surprise assault, it's over. I think I had a Basiner in on that one with me, but I don't recall the name.
3) One pick-up raid was obvious from the start it was going nowhere. Everyone stood around asking "what's the plan?" Nobody said one, so everyone just kinda roamed around killing and being killed. We got slaughtered that game, of course, against the organized Horde group that at one point came SO close to actually owning ALL 5 strongpoints. Needless to say, the honor gain that run wasn't so hot.
4) I won a match 2000 to 1980. That was friggin AWESOME. Great groups on both sides in a match that went back and forth like crazy. Definitely the best experience of the weekend for me. If the match went to 2050 points the Horde probably would have won, since at that moment they controlled more strongpoints.
5) One fight amused me in particular. A frenzied battle over the blacksmith flag was ensuing, and for once I wasn't the primary target of the invaders (cause they were dumb, of course). Since they left me alone, I did my usual psychic scream thing to disrupt the attack, and then started actually healing. I think the attackers were so surprised they didn't know what to do (expecting me instead to mind flay/silence/what have you). By the time they recovered from the shock of seeing an Alliance priest actually healing her comrades, it was too late and their attack was smashed. The even better part was the reaction of my teammates who /hugged me for the heals. They aren't used to it either.
6) MongoJerry hates Paladins. I got a firsthand look at why during a match where I was once again guarding the gold mine - just me and a Paladin. Five Hordies came down the path and I knew death was imminent - for me, at least. The Hunter and two Rogues made short work of me and I waited for the graveyard to spawn me, figuring the Paladin would be toast shortly thereafter. Nope. That one bloody Paladin held the strongpoint and prevented FIVE Horde from getting it during the 15 seconds I waited for respawn. I respawned, ran back, and just as the Paladin was about to bite it I Shielded him, flash healed twice, cast renew, and died again in a hail of gunfire and stabbity death. Waiting again for respawn, I came back to see that as the Paladin was dying, 6 Alliance members came riding in to obliterate the invaders. One Priest and one Paladin held off five Horde from taking the flag for about 40 seconds.
Enough with the anecdotes, time for some STRATEGY!
If you haven't figured out from my anecdotes from now, the proper strategy for the Arathi Basin isn't particularly difficult. It's a 15-player zone, and there are 5 strongpoints to control. If you control 3 and your enemy controls only 2, you win. From my limited n00b experiences, I see that there are three main roles for any party member to play in the Arathi Basin:
1) Defender. Holds a strongpoint against attacks. If attacking force is too large to handle (usually the case), the defender announces the attack to the raid and then attempts to survive/disrupt the attack long enough to prevent the enemy from assaulting and capturing the point before reinforcments arrive. The goal isn't to kill an attacker so much as it is to keep them busy until help comes - they simply have to hurt anyone touching the flag to disrupt the assault. If the attacking force isn't large enough to threaten the position, kill the attackers and /taunt their fetid corpses.
2) Roamer. The Roamers join the Defenders at first in order to take the initial positions. They then go to where they are needed to hold the positions. As the Defenders call out for help, the Roamers get in gear and charge down to defend the post. Defenders must keep Roamers informed of what's going on until they arrive - after all, if the attack is a feint, the Roamers don't want to cross over the whole map to find the REAL attack is on the other side.
3) Disruptor. The Disruptors are a pack of a few players who will do their best to annoy and disrupt enemy organization. This can be done by swift attacks on enemy strongpoints to distract the enemy from getting a solid attack going, sniping any solo enemies running around, and irritating the foe.
The more experienced PvP'ers in your group should be Roamers and Disruptors. n00bs or This also goes for gear, and especially those with epic mounts should be Roamers.
Classes that would suit certain roles well (theoretically, any class could fit in for any role though):
Paladin: Defender. I mean, duh. See anecdote #6 above. Paladins are just BORN to stop invaders from taking a strongpoint and irritating the hell out of them.
Priest: Defender if healing-spec'ed, but would make a great Roamer if talented for PvP well. There were some fights where I'd just stand still and heal myself constantly while the enemy would try desperately to kill me - while my Alliance buddies were then wailing on the poor bastard. For a healing spec'ed Priest, that can be your best move (sans SW:P on rogues to prevent them from vanishing) - do what you're good at, not hit the enemy for a pitiful Mind Blast!
Rogue: Disruptor and Roamer. Can be wicked as a Defender to lure attackers into a trap, but since we're Alliance we can have any Night Elf shadowmeld to do the same thing.
Warrior: Roamer. You want a Warrior leading every charge when a strongpoint is being attacked. Get in there and bash some heads, and if you're lucky the Warrior will be focused on by the attackers instead of squishier teammates in back.
n00b evaluation on general strategy: as I've mentioned earlier, if you hold three locations while the enemy holds 2, you win. So the focus seems clear from the start. With a raid of 15 people, each group will hit one point at the beginning and secure it. Once secure, the defenders (2 per group, maybe 3) will hold the position and the roamers move to where they are needed - either one of the three initial points is being contested too much or an attack is imminent on a defended point. The disruptors head out to start attacks on lightly defended enemy points or just to annoy the enemy (charging headlong into an organized enemy attack heading to its destination is a great way to screw it up).
Hold the three points. You may lose one from time to time as it's assaulted, but if the enemy never takes control of the point (they have to own it for a full minute IIRC) then you're always in the lead. The key is discipline, which almost all pick-up raids completely lack in PvP. Everyone must know their role and stick to it - the temptation to abandon your defended post to help out against an attack elsewhere is high, but doing that plays right into the enemy's hands. They'll just keep shifting their assaults around, and your team is forced to react constantly, always staying behind. If you hold your points and keep annoying them, then they're forced to react, get frustrated, etc.
I would love to see a Lurker team assembled to do some Battlegrounds. Believe me that with a group of 15 PvP newbs that are organized vs. a group of varied-experience PvPers playing randomly in a pick-up raid, we'd slaughter them every time. Yes, if 15 of us still new to PvP run up against a highly experienced Horde PvP group, we'll get owned, but we can still have fun anyway in the process (and learn a few things).
Anyhow, those who have quite a lot of PvP experience here (e.g. Quark, Mongo, Artega, etc) can probably add a lot more to this discussion. This is just what I picked up after a few matches, and it's things all said before: that in Battlegrounds, teamwork is the key, and n00bs playing as a team can still dominate experts not playing well together.
As usual, hope you enjoyed the read. I'll see you next weekend in whatever BG has a holiday - Sergeant discount for the win!
-Bolty
Quote:Considering the mods here are generally liberals who seem to have a soft spot for fascism and white supremacy (despite them saying otherwise), me being perma-banned at some point is probably not out of the question.