How Widespread is this Point of View?
#21
Flymo,Nov 5 2005, 08:57 AM Wrote:Europe is what it is because of millennia of invasion and immigration.  It has absorbed, been absorbed by, and integrated with countless other cultures.  If it hadn't been Europeans would still be sacrificing virgins in stone circles; Christianity is itself an import from the middle east.  Spain was under Islamic rule for centuries.

Each time a new wave of migration comes it is faced with the fear and prejudice that Wolfgang Bruno disguises as "nationalism", and often this leads to pogroms, race riots, or other violence.  Ultimately the migrants are accepted and integrated and European culture is the stronger for it.

My part of London has had strong Turkish Cypriot immigration for some years but the only outward sign is the three Turkish restaurants in the high street.  You cannot tell who is Turkish because they look, talk, and act like everyone else (and Turkish women do not wear the burka as Bruno seems to think they do).  Turkey is no threat.

It is also not right to blame the recent tube bombings on a lack of British chauvinism.  The bombers were indoctrinated in Pakistan, not Britain, and their terrorism was motivated by religion, not nationality.
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Thanks for the "on the scene" insight. :)

I won't agree that Europe has ever "assimilated" Islam, though parts of it were conquered by Islamic based invaders. Spain was indelibly marked by the impact of Al Andalus, likewise the Balkans. Euopre fought about 1000 years worth of wars against Islam beginning with Charles Martel in 732, and not really ending until 1699 and Vienna. Heck, one could argue that the coup de grace vis a vis the Islamic Empire was in 1918, when the Caliphate fell, administered by Europe. As a result, Turkey went officially secular, while normatively it is underwritten by Islamic culture, still.

I do take your point on how cultural blends are a continuum, since culture is not necessarily "locked in stone" if we look at how things have changed over the course of Europe's evolution. (That thought does not flatter the problems of cultures heavily influenced by Islam or other reactionary cultural bases.) Bruno's premise of a well defined, European culture is a worthy angle to critique his article from. *tips chapeau*

Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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Messages In This Thread
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by eppie - 11-02-2005, 02:47 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by eppie - 11-03-2005, 09:48 AM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Ashock - 11-03-2005, 04:50 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Jester - 11-04-2005, 12:23 AM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Ashock - 11-04-2005, 01:01 AM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Assur - 11-04-2005, 04:24 AM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by eppie - 11-04-2005, 09:05 AM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Flymo - 11-04-2005, 01:22 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Ashock - 11-04-2005, 06:05 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by eppie - 11-05-2005, 11:58 AM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Flymo - 11-05-2005, 02:57 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Occhidiangela - 11-05-2005, 03:59 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Flymo - 11-05-2005, 04:18 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Guest - 11-05-2005, 04:34 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Guest - 11-05-2005, 04:34 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Flymo - 11-05-2005, 10:03 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Guest - 11-06-2005, 01:24 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Guest - 11-06-2005, 05:41 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Flymo - 11-06-2005, 06:37 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Jester - 11-07-2005, 05:24 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Ashock - 11-07-2005, 05:48 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Jester - 11-07-2005, 08:26 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Guest - 11-07-2005, 10:10 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Jester - 11-08-2005, 12:35 AM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by eppie - 11-08-2005, 08:26 AM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Ashock - 11-08-2005, 09:45 AM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by jahcs - 11-08-2005, 04:41 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Ashock - 11-09-2005, 05:15 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by eppie - 11-10-2005, 12:50 PM
How Widespread is this Point of View? - by Ashock - 11-10-2005, 06:09 PM

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