09-17-2005, 04:16 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2005, 04:21 AM by Rhydderch Hael.)
Okay, I'll readily admit that the only reason I'm re-visiting the D2 forum and popping into this thread is because of a tangential inspiration. Something outside of Diablo set me to this chain of reasoning.
If there is a new game, they should include swordfighting.
:blink: "Swordfighting?" you might ask. "Have you played the game? See those huge knife thingys the Paladins and Barbarians and Assassins are holding?"
The truth is, what you experience in the game isn't swordfighting. It's the animation sequence for a close-ranged attack mapped in front of the character. And what do they do in that animation? Swing the sword, bring the sword back to the starting position, and swing the sword again.
I'm a novice in casual study of 14th-15th German longsword technique, but even an inexperienced book-rookie such as I can tell you that that above-described method would get you killed in an actual swordfight.
A sword stroke is the energetic transition from one guard position from another. And in refined technique, the position your sword ends up in after the stroke (whether you hit the target, bind swords with the enemy, or miss him outright) is always going to be a position from which you can initiate a new, different attack. No resets in mid-fight, no need to find a new guard position to initiate the new attackâ you'e already there, baby.
In the Liechtennauer swordfighting tradition, I can start out in the high guard of a right Vom Tag (sword in a batter's stance) and execute a Zornhau (full-strength stroke traveling diagonally down to my left side). If I miss (or slice right through Rakanishu's ponytail) I end up with my sword low and near my left legâ the left Nebenhut guard position. The left Nebehut is a good starting position for an Unterhau: an undercutting stroke traveling back up the path my sword blade took on the way down. But this time I cannot recover the blade back in the right Vom Tag guardâ too slow. It's faster and smoother to recover an Unterhau in the right Ochs guard: the hilt beside my head with the blade pointed forward in a menacing position aimed at my enemy's head. What can I do then? A Zwerchhau, essentially whirling the blade counter-clockwise over my head before bringing it around in a high sideways attack against my enemy's head, recovering the stroke in a left Ochs guard. Or, if I didn't want a Zwerchhau, I stab at the sucker from the Ochs or extending into the Langenort: the long-point guard (I skewer the guy).
I didn't need to go back to the batting stance of the Vom Tag in order to repeat my attack, and if I had tried, that would have taken enough time for the other guy to attack with virtual impunity.
What you see happening in Diablo (or much of any other swords-and-sorcery game) is unfaithful to true swordfighting techniques. Now, it is also a matter of game mechanicsâ skill/difficulty balancing and timing issues. But, what may be seen as a technical shortcoming may be exploited by designers to become a game feature.
The underlying concept behind increasing damage potential (and increasing stat requirements) of weaponry in the game is to explain how a maturing character becomes deadlier as time and experience build on. A veteran character has access to damages and abilities that a brand-new character is denied.
Yet in animation mechanics, the novice and veteran characters "fight" the same wayâ in the same motions and probably at the same speed. The same clumsy motion, the same pre-determined speed.
Want a game with swordfighting in it? Give the novice character those clumsy, wasteful moves. Have him re-set himself into the same stance every time he attacks. Make him look like a rookie swordfighter. But as he levels up and accesses higher skill levels and items, alter the mechanics. Give him "special" moves as he matures. A thrust that comes immediately after a stroke, thus ramping in a little extra attack. Have him recover into a good guard that temporarily blocks an attack for a second after the stroke. Or when you give him an Increased Attack Speed weapon, have him start his next attack immediately after recovering from making his first attack. It would still be "point and click" attacking, but the incidental improvements in the animation are what contributes to the increased fighting potential of a matured character.
Have it so that the game features swordfighting characters who not only do more damage as they level upâ they actually look and act like they're improving in swordfighting skill. Make it so that a rookie looks like a rookie, but a veteran looks really, really cool.
Given the future of game-making in 3D rendering and motion-capture animation, this would be feasible with current and future programming.
If there is a new game, they should include swordfighting.
:blink: "Swordfighting?" you might ask. "Have you played the game? See those huge knife thingys the Paladins and Barbarians and Assassins are holding?"
The truth is, what you experience in the game isn't swordfighting. It's the animation sequence for a close-ranged attack mapped in front of the character. And what do they do in that animation? Swing the sword, bring the sword back to the starting position, and swing the sword again.
I'm a novice in casual study of 14th-15th German longsword technique, but even an inexperienced book-rookie such as I can tell you that that above-described method would get you killed in an actual swordfight.
A sword stroke is the energetic transition from one guard position from another. And in refined technique, the position your sword ends up in after the stroke (whether you hit the target, bind swords with the enemy, or miss him outright) is always going to be a position from which you can initiate a new, different attack. No resets in mid-fight, no need to find a new guard position to initiate the new attackâ you'e already there, baby.
In the Liechtennauer swordfighting tradition, I can start out in the high guard of a right Vom Tag (sword in a batter's stance) and execute a Zornhau (full-strength stroke traveling diagonally down to my left side). If I miss (or slice right through Rakanishu's ponytail) I end up with my sword low and near my left legâ the left Nebenhut guard position. The left Nebehut is a good starting position for an Unterhau: an undercutting stroke traveling back up the path my sword blade took on the way down. But this time I cannot recover the blade back in the right Vom Tag guardâ too slow. It's faster and smoother to recover an Unterhau in the right Ochs guard: the hilt beside my head with the blade pointed forward in a menacing position aimed at my enemy's head. What can I do then? A Zwerchhau, essentially whirling the blade counter-clockwise over my head before bringing it around in a high sideways attack against my enemy's head, recovering the stroke in a left Ochs guard. Or, if I didn't want a Zwerchhau, I stab at the sucker from the Ochs or extending into the Langenort: the long-point guard (I skewer the guy).
I didn't need to go back to the batting stance of the Vom Tag in order to repeat my attack, and if I had tried, that would have taken enough time for the other guy to attack with virtual impunity.
What you see happening in Diablo (or much of any other swords-and-sorcery game) is unfaithful to true swordfighting techniques. Now, it is also a matter of game mechanicsâ skill/difficulty balancing and timing issues. But, what may be seen as a technical shortcoming may be exploited by designers to become a game feature.
The underlying concept behind increasing damage potential (and increasing stat requirements) of weaponry in the game is to explain how a maturing character becomes deadlier as time and experience build on. A veteran character has access to damages and abilities that a brand-new character is denied.
Yet in animation mechanics, the novice and veteran characters "fight" the same wayâ in the same motions and probably at the same speed. The same clumsy motion, the same pre-determined speed.
Want a game with swordfighting in it? Give the novice character those clumsy, wasteful moves. Have him re-set himself into the same stance every time he attacks. Make him look like a rookie swordfighter. But as he levels up and accesses higher skill levels and items, alter the mechanics. Give him "special" moves as he matures. A thrust that comes immediately after a stroke, thus ramping in a little extra attack. Have him recover into a good guard that temporarily blocks an attack for a second after the stroke. Or when you give him an Increased Attack Speed weapon, have him start his next attack immediately after recovering from making his first attack. It would still be "point and click" attacking, but the incidental improvements in the animation are what contributes to the increased fighting potential of a matured character.
Have it so that the game features swordfighting characters who not only do more damage as they level upâ they actually look and act like they're improving in swordfighting skill. Make it so that a rookie looks like a rookie, but a veteran looks really, really cool.
Given the future of game-making in 3D rendering and motion-capture animation, this would be feasible with current and future programming.
Political Correctness is the idea that you can foster tolerance in a diverse world through the intolerance of anything that strays from a clinical standard.