Itemization
#18
Lissa,Sep 12 2005, 02:51 PM Wrote:I don't know how many of you out there have really looked at the Tier 1 sets vs. the Tier 2 sets, but the difference between Felheart and Nemesis is fairly small.  Nemesis has about +20 more damage total than Felheart and has only slightly more +Int, +Sta, +Spirit, and various resists.  The fact that the difference between the tier 1 set and the tier 2 set of about 6 DPS for long cast spells is horrible.
Going to Bloodfang from Nightslayer gets you 28 agility, 35 Str, 2 Stam, 140 AC. It also changes +5% crit, +2% hit to +3% crit, +2% dodge, +1% hit, and immune to disarm. You actually lose +crit and +hit going from Nightslayer to Bloodfang, and that's even counting the agility difference. You have about the same Fire resistance, with a little added Frost/Arcane/Shadow resist. So the pure stats are better, but I'd only take the Disarm immunity over pure crit/hit. Dodge only helps me with circular physical AoEs, and truthfully there's not that many of those. Conical physical AoEs can be avoided, and magical AoEs ignore dodge.


Quote:To further show how bad itemization is for casters, consider this.  The typical Blue dagger is around 40 to 41 DPS with a near 60 level requirement.  The typical Purple dagger from MC is around 48 - 50, sometimes higher.
Of course, we don't care about DPS. I just did some of the math (saving for a later post), and for a Rogue with 750 AP (easily makeable), Barman Shanker of 36.5 dps does only 2.5 less total dps Electrified Dagger of 42.5 dps. Electrified would be the best blue dagger in the game, too, if it wasn't for weapon speeds. At 800 AP, Barman has taken the top of DPS again.

Quote:Now, for a caster, Int improves crit rate at a factor of 1% per 100 Int.  For a Warrior, every 2 Str is 1 MAP (Melee Attack Power) and for a Rogue every 1 Agi and 1 Str is 1 MAP.
Yes, this is the part that hits hardest for casters.


Quote:As such, while non-Caster DPS increases dramtically as they go up each tier, Caster DPS languishes on improvement.  Blizzard has to sit down and do something to make it better for Casters.  While Casters making up the vast majority of damage in the pre-40 man raid instances, they are dwindling quickly in the the 40 man raid instances (last few MC runs with Avarice has had a Rogue at #1 each time and has had atleast 2 to 3 Rogues in the top 5) due to horrible itemization concerning +damage/+crit.
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It's really not dramatic at all unless it's a new weapon. The new weapon is everything to the Rogue (and I haven't seen one in months, with only Electified and Gutgore in sight). The reason we've had a Rogue up top is because Arleas got tired of waiting for Dal'Rend main hand and grabbed a Krol Blade, while Yuen does his best to maximize Barman's damage range with +8 damage stones and +damage enchants. Besides, while I'm not gonna argue that other classes shouldn't be comparable to Rogues, what other class should be #1 in damage? Mages/Hunters? They don't take the risks (and bandage consumption) we take. Warlocks? Same risk as Mages, and they have great utility. Warriors? Put a good Fury warrior together (not half-fury, not part tanking. Pure Fury), they'll already keep with Rogues while having more armor and health. Oh, and they can backup as tanks too.

I do agree that caster Itemization is still the worst side, but I don't think your talking about our damage list furthers your argument.
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Messages In This Thread
Itemization - by Quark - 09-09-2005, 09:24 PM
Itemization - by oldmandennis - 09-09-2005, 09:52 PM
Itemization - by Olon97 - 09-09-2005, 10:27 PM
Itemization - by Skandranon - 09-11-2005, 07:19 AM
Itemization - by Rinnhart - 09-11-2005, 08:17 AM
Itemization - by mjdoom - 09-11-2005, 05:57 PM
Itemization - by Kevin - 09-11-2005, 06:54 PM
Itemization - by Skandranon - 09-11-2005, 07:44 PM
Itemization - by MongoJerry - 09-12-2005, 12:37 AM
Itemization - by Leshy - 09-12-2005, 01:36 AM
Itemization - by Skandranon - 09-12-2005, 06:31 AM
Itemization - by Warlock - 09-12-2005, 08:30 AM
Itemization - by Skandranon - 09-12-2005, 02:57 PM
Itemization - by lfd - 09-12-2005, 03:01 PM
Itemization - by Skandranon - 09-12-2005, 03:07 PM
Itemization - by Quark - 09-12-2005, 04:15 PM
Itemization - by Lissa - 09-12-2005, 06:51 PM
Itemization - by Quark - 09-12-2005, 08:07 PM
Itemization - by Artega - 09-12-2005, 09:09 PM
Itemization - by Olon97 - 09-12-2005, 09:50 PM
Itemization - by Quark - 09-12-2005, 10:03 PM
Itemization - by Lissa - 09-12-2005, 11:39 PM
Itemization - by Warlock - 09-13-2005, 03:10 AM
Itemization - by ink - 09-15-2005, 05:28 PM
Itemization - by Professor Frink - 09-26-2005, 03:38 AM
Itemization - by Kevin - 09-26-2005, 04:41 AM
Itemization - by oldmandennis - 09-26-2005, 06:02 PM
Itemization - by Quark - 11-28-2005, 08:03 PM
Itemization - by oldmandennis - 11-28-2005, 10:13 PM

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