Party Strategy Guide

[Treesh]

Well I still don't know why a tank needs to know this.  I see you're quite emphatic, but I didn't see any reasons why in your first paragraph.  As for your story, it sounds like you had a bad puller but the moral I get from it is the puller and the shackler need to know who the elites are (and not even the shackler if the puller hadn't been lazy and used names), but not the tank.  If a tank's job is to hold aggro, then every 15 seconds he or she needs to sunder the armor on each mob.  Who cares if they're elite?

However, in this conversation I'm seeing the plan needs more commincation here.  Knowing elite is important for people who need to set priorities, so it needs to be communicated to the Main Assist and perhaps crowd controlers.  The tank would need the information only if he or she plans to hold aggro on specific mobs.  Perhaps the puller should communicate the number of elites and non-elites.  I'll think about this a bit more.

Great.  Any suggestions on advice I should give the tank on when to give the ok?

Brian
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A tank needs to know how many elites and how many non-elites are going to be in a pull because the tank needs to lock down at least the elites so he needs to focus on them first. Say you've got a pull coming up with 3 elites and 3 non-elites (that don't do a lot of damage) in a group and you can't crowd control any of them (Ah, sunken temple memories). The tank is going to have to grab aggro on the 3 elites or they'll just eat through the mages/warlocks. Hopefully the tank will be able to hold on a couple of the non-elites through one or two of the AOE "pulses" so they won't immediately break to the AoErs. (Mages, remember you can also start with Blizzard rather than flamestrike or arcane explosion so your threat doesn't start off with a large amount, but you're still doing AoE damage. If you're specced to chill with blizzard, even better.) If the tank doesn't know what's elite and what isn't before the pull, he's going to be scrambling to find the elites to lock them down after the pull (as I did trying to get a shackling target, which is why I mentioned the little story) or else will just grab what he can, probably grabbing non-elites first, meaning the elites are more likely to hit the AoErs causing a lot of extra damage and healing. You do not want multiple elites beating on your cloth wearers. If the tank can't lock down the elites, it's going to be a struggle to keep the AoErs alive, especially if one is a warlock with that damned suicide AoE. The warlocks get hurt enough from hellfire (I think that's the name. None of my locks are big enough to have it yet). They don't need to be taking extra damage from elite critters too, despite their huge hitpoint pools. If your tank doesn't know what the elites are and how many before the pull, he's not going to be able to lock them down as well (unless he's a great player and those are rare in pickup groups) and they will eat your AoErs.

When to AoE and when to not AoE. If it's all non-elites that don't really hurt much or will die quickly, AoE whenever. If it's just one elite and a bunch of non-elites that don't hurt much, you can probably AoE and not give your healer a heart attack. If it's one elite and a bunch of non-elites who do hurt a lot but will probably die farily quickly, let the tank get aggro on as many as he can before unleashing. If it's all elites in the pull, get creative with crowd control first before thinking about AoEing. The more hitpoints and damage the critters have/can do, the less likely you are to AoE successfully (meaning without your mages/warlocks ending up dead. Dead people does not mean successful in my book for 5 man runs). You are better off trying to crowd control that mess. If you are pressed for time and have say, two mages and a warlock in the group with your tank and healer, you can try it to save some time, but frequently it's too risky.

I wish I could tell you just how to tell the tanks to know when they've built up enough aggro on the really ouchy critters so they can call for AoE, but it does kind of depend. It's a feel thing. Sometimes the thunderclap, dem shout, sunder everything else repeatedly can hold them, sometimes it can't. If it was a ranged pull rather than a charge pull, it's going to take a little longer to really lock them down. If they are one of the warriors who fears defensive stance for some reason, it may take them longer to lock down multiple mobs or just take more attention to do. If your tank is a pally, it's going to be awfully rough on them to hold down multiples even with consecrate sometimes. Give them time to lock down as well. It's harder for them than for warriors, but they can still do it. It still just comes down to feel. If the tank has gotten some lucky crits on sweeping strikes or cleave or even just on auto-attack, he can call a little earlier. If the tank has been missing like crazy, he needs to wait.