Dark Clouds Gather

[Kevin]

No.  In many ways, I feel it's worse.
This is a fine thing to feel, GG.  Laudable, even.  So if you really mean it, go do it.

It's one thing to say "I want to 5-man it and discover it for myself", go do it, and then proceed to raids and additional runs to help people gear up.

It's quite another to say "I want to 5-man it" and then play alts, raid something else, play alts more, delay, auction, craft, farm, play alts more, and keep saying you don't want to raid or do loot runs because you want to discover it first.  It's been over a month since I suggested you find yourself a discovery group to go into DM West; since I said that DM West is a variety of fun challenges and that you'd really enjoy it.  More than a month.  Have you been in there yet?
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Note: There is much here that is directed specifically at Skan, but there is general response in here as well. I am addressing things brought up by mjdoom.

You are absolutely correct. I am part of the problem with Lurkers. I've said that before. I meant to say it again in my big post and it didn't come across right. Several things didn't come across right in that because I was letting it be more stream of conscious. I was being as honest as I could. I wasn't trying to be fair. Emotions generally aren't, I was just trying to let them out.

I have tried 3 times and failed to get a DM West group going. I turned at least one run, maybe two, that would have bowed down before my demands becuase I knew at that time that if I went I was going to ruin fun for the others in the group and that the mood I was in was going to be disastorous for running. There are a few players that want to do this with me as well, and you are right my selfishness has held me and them back. I'm not denying that. I have asked for special treatment on numerous occasions and I have gotten it. I even attempted to go in a mostly public group once but that failed me. So yeah, I have tried. I did get to do two 5 man runs in scartlet start that were discoveries for me and I got a quest reward out of it that was an upgrade that I wasn't expecting. But you are right I probably could have gotten in there and had fun already.

I also apologize to you because I know I'm part of the reason that you left lurkers and I suspected it as well. I've attacked you when you were just trying to be helpful and I didn't always apologize for it. You helped me out a lot. You helped the guild out a lot. Yes this post is being directed mostly at you, but that goes for Arethor and Galreth and Flyndar as well. I don't want to see you or the other leave. I understand it, but I don't like it.

I know I came off as high and mighty. I know that I am a hypocrit with some of the comments I made. I know I was harsh. I'm a flake though. I know that I can't and won't alway participate in the high end content but I'm selfish enough to want you to stick around so that I can do it easier. I kept using the word sacrifice in terms of my fun and that has a connotation of my doing something noble for others. That was a very poor choice of words. Or at least I should have applied it more to what you and mjdoom and Arethor have done for me and others more. I was hot and I was letting it out. I was simply trying to be honest and as you all know and have said there are tons of things going on with these decisions. I was mostly mad and confused by the timing of things and I focused on the one thing that I could think of for being the reason.

I also have personal issues with experts. I have a tendency to subdue myself and completely defer to them without question at time. Then I will get mad at myself for doing that later. I will also do things that I don't realize at the time to prove them wrong and through my actions cause something to fail. It's easy to see when looking back on it that I did something to mess things up but of course when things go wrong at the time I blame the expert. I tag people as experts who demonstrate that they do know more about it than me. Then I let my ego get in the way and mess things up. Or since in my mind they are an expert I put unreasonable expections on them even if I don't express them. Ask Treesh how unfair I've been to her at times simply becasue she knows more about something than I do so therefor in my mind she's and expert on it when she really isn't.

I know that it isn't just about loot, I knew that when I posted and I know it even better now. I touched on the game design being something that will cause me to leave the game. So I attributed all that hostility to that, since I really love the community of people that I play and have played with, and I transfered it unfairly to others. Part of the reason I haven't tried harder on DM West is that I'm a stubborn ass and don't want to do the good or right thing sometimes just so I can be a stubborn contrary ass and pretend I'm not. I'm convinced from what you said that I would love DM West but I don't want to go partly because I know that I should. Does that make any sense no. Is that part of the issues lurkers has, you bet. I hurt the guild as much as anyone who leaves it.

The fact that you three have sacrificed much for the guild also made it harder for me to understand how you could leave it behind at all as well.

Maybe I shouldn't do these apologies publicly but I am.

Skan - I really do want to apologize. I know there are other sources that are bigger than me for you frustrations. I'm only speaking for myself here. I know you have tried to help me out a lot and you have even admitted that you don't always communicate as well as you would like to. I'm sorry that I didn't work with you as much as I could. The first time I played with you on teamspeak was so much better for me and I wish that I would have told you that then. When you type information you are concise and you don't want to leave anything for assumption because you really are just trying to help people and make them enjoy the game. When you are Teamspeak you are more brief because you can get instant feedback on if people need that information or not. I apologize for getting mad at you for you simply being correct and me not wanting to admit it. I apologize for taking advantage of your generosity and wealth of knowledge and then making you feel like #$%& for it. I wish I could be on teamspeak more readily and that I could speak on it easier most of the time. I aplogize for not thanking you enough for working with me and my special needs. I apologize for some of the whispered conversations I had that may have fostered bad feelings about you in others simply because I had a bad day. I apologize for some of the spoken comments I made that helped set Treesh off. You are a great player you are fun person, you have admitted to your short comings and you have worked better with them than I have with mine. I will play with you again on whatever terms you have, I will understand if you simply don't want to deal with me though. I never expected you to play with me on my terms even though you did at times. Have fun with Rylea again, please. Keep being the huge wealth of knowledge that you are for everyone you interact with. Keep making the game a fun place for people. Don't let my selfish words be something that upsets you. Dude you're a good guy you don't deserve some of the #$%& I've thrown your way, have fun with the game and Rylea. Just have fun.

mjdoom - I apologize for the insinuation that it was all about loot. You've done a crapload for me. You've done a crapload for the guild. I thank you for the runs where you shut up for me when I asked you to. I thank you for all the class discussion we've had. I apologize for getting pissy at your for no good reason because I felt you were making Gnolack less valuable because you had no reason to slow play Galreth and plenty of reasons to work his butt up to help others. So you got geared up and skilled up and did what you could to help. You didn't make Gnolack any less needed, you made him more needed for somethings as a matter of fact because things are easier with two warriors around at times. I'm just apologizing for my pettiness that I hide from a lot of people. Gnolack is less valuable than he could be because I don't do things that I can and should with him because I want play my alts and craft. You helped take the load off Darian and me and helped the guild with Galreth. I'm sorry if my words made your decision to do what you need to have fun with him harder on you. Just have fun man.

Arethor - You haven't really said as much in the thread and since I've always talked in game more with you than with Skan or your brother I didn't let personal issues fester with you. I don't have as much to say here. I apologize if anything I said here has hurt you. Like Skan and mjdoom I know this decision wasn't easy for you. I don't want anything I say to cause you any more anguish than you arleady are feeling. It's a game, do what is fun. I've played you more than skan or mjdoom and I've always had a blast. Just have fun man.


But you can't wait around. I know that. I'm not sure lurkers will get there. There are a lot of great people here but there are a lot of us who are casual in one way or another about it. I fear that becuase of the game design and because we try to foster so many play styles that we won't get there because we do all want people to have fun and people only have so much time. I can justifiy staying in a guild just for the people. But yeah, how long can you stay if you aren't having fun. I've admitted that I know I'll be completely leaving the game at some point so that will weaken the group and while I want to see end game content it isn't my driving motivation. But like I said, I really do hope that if schedules work out since you guys do have big alts and have had fun playing them that you can still have fun with those alts in the Lurkers raids. I and other fear that you won't be able to though. That is where some of this, and I'm sure you know it, comes from. I've played with Sommli a couple times since he left. He was at Onyxia one night as well with us. I just hope that you guys can do this too, if, and only if, it is still fun for you. I still yell out loud, "Hey there's Ninuin/Tutelin" about Sword of Doom as well. I still really haven't had a chance to play with him though. I was so happy to read that he is having fun. I don't want to alienate anyone but some of our reactions do.

I think people are just trying to be honest. Take it personal but take it reasonably as well. I brought in non internet life examples before. I've been pissed at co-workers for taking a new job and causing me some issues for whatever reason but it was always because I am selfish. I still keep in touch with all of them and really am happy for them when things get better for them. It doesn't mean I don't have anger. I think it's good we are all just expressing ourselves. It's forum drama. It's real and it's artifical. I hate seeing it but I enjoy getting involved with it at times too. I'm hoping that I don't cause more unnecessary drama with this post like I may have with my last post.

Anyway that is way to much for people to wade through. Just have fun everyone.