This world is not ours

[Occhidiangela]

Oh I get it.
Philosophy is futile and politics and economy rule over it.

How does it feel to need a mental laxative? Put words into someone else's mouth.

Rephrased so that you may grasp the concept, a Philosophy's futility is revealed when It tries to reach Its ideal End, at which point It will inevitably fail by running into application by imperfect Man, and by encountering competing Philosophies. Funny, we are back to Conflict, as in the conflict of ideas, which is where we got off the train of thought last time. Your baseline "harmonious perfection of Nature that gets spoiled by unworthy Man" breeds Conflict, even in Ideas. In case you were unsure, there is some Hegel sprinkled in there.

Without morality and ethics (which are derived from philosophy),you wouldn't be free if you were black in the America of proslavery,you wouldn't have have the same rights as men if you were a woman before 20th century,etc..philosophy helped to improve your rights and economy+politics were influenced by it.  [right][snapback]77688[/snapback][/right]

Like "Nature," "Philosophy" is an abstract. Please frame your conversation with "which flavor of philosophy" you refer to. They are not interchangeable.

The root of the futility of the philosopher, or someone like yourself who asserts philosophy as superior to other disciplines or endeavors, lies in the arrogance, the presumed superiority of Thought and Theory over Deed and Action, and in the frustration of practical necessity to apply ideas to the mundane life lived by the great unwashed. (Life is a team sport, so to speak.) Any philosophy, reaches its limitation short of the ideal when it isn't (or can't) be put into practice. As Clausewitz observed about War, the limitations in practice of any pure "thing in itself" encounters the friction of the physical world: Nature perhaps? Since there are always modifications in Practice, Compromise defeats a pure philosophy's reach for its End via dilution, an outcome of compromise with another Philosophy, or simple physical laws.

Do not blithely ignore the requirement of action, and the synergistic combinations of action, religion and philosophy that result in societal outcomes. Philosophy without Action is like an egg without sperm: a bloody useless bit of waste.

Without Philosophy, I think we will agree that life would be less rich, and more likely less moral, less just. How is it that "philosophy" arrogates to itself an inherent superiority over other lines of endeavor? The egotism of philosphers, not some inherent value of pure thought. Did not Kant demonstrate the limitations of pure reason in his critique of reason?

The Ivory Tower is sneered at with good reason, but it is not razed to the ground. Why? Every now and again, Sturgeon' Law's 10% leaks out with the remaining excrement, a nugget of corn amongst philosophical feces that is worth harvesting to nourish lives hungry for meaning and understanding.

Philosophy is one of many tools that Man, not Nature, uses to recraft the world into an image most pleasing to Him. This recrafting is an act of Creation, and if Man creates, then Man can indeed own that part of the world he bends his crafting efforts to. Philosophy provides a direction and an initial blueprint, but absent action and will, and compromise, Philosphy in the absolute, in the abstract, amounts to futile, mental masturbation. That does not mean it can't be fun in the right context. :whistling:

Occhi

EDIT: Took a couple of insults out. Trying to keep it sorta clean.