I'm making this specifically about dagger rogues because that's what my rogues use and it seems that not too many of our lurkers have grouped with dagger rogues, even those with multiple characters in the 60s. Edit: Rereading this, it's really more about backstab/ambush rogues than dagger rogues.
First off, about sap. We can help with pre-pull crowd control in the correct situations. Please note the pre-pull part of that sentence. If you do need to have something sapped, you must wait until you see it sapped. Rogues (all rogues) cannot sap a humanoid that is in combat. We cannot sap animals, demons, elementals or undead. We sap humanoids. That's it. We do not want to sap constantly (or at least I don't ;) ), but if you are looking at a three pull of all humanoids and you only have one other class with good crowd control and there are not other mobs close to that known three pull, let the rogue sap and remember to WAIT for the sap to go off. If there are other mobs close to the three you're looking at, that is not really a proper time for sap (unless the rogue has improved sap. Ask your rogue beforehand and give them time to answer before charging off). If you aren't sure what is or isn't a good time for a sap, you can ask your rogue. Hopefully they'll know. ;)
Second, for dagger rogues specifically, we need to be able to position ourselves behind the mobs as well as we can. Not only are we fighting latency issues and lag and just plain old poor synchonization between where the server says the critter is and where the client thinks the critter is, we are also fighting aggro bouncing. Let the main tank hold aggro. If you are off-tank, manage your aggro so the critter isn't constantly flipping between you and the tank especially if you two decide to be on opposite sides of the critter. If you are an off-tank, make sure to stay on the same side of the critter as the main tank so if you do happen to take aggro, you aren't screwing over your backstabbing/ambushing rogue. Edit: You don't have to stand exactly on the same side as the tank, but try not to go more than 90 degrees rotation in relation to the tank. This will allow the tank to know if something has stopped attacking him and starting attacking the main tank and will also allow your rogue to still be in position for backstabs.
Tanks, keep critters away from the walls if you are in an enclosed area. If your rogue can't actually fit between the critter and the wall, you're losing out on a lot of damage and it can be very frustrating for the rogue. Basically, people only see us as DPS monkeys and forget everything else we can do, but if you take away good positioning from the backstab/ambush rogue you're severely crippling our damage, the main role we are put into.
Third, if you see us stealthing to go scout something do NOT follow us unless you can stealth as well. There's nothing worse than trying to scout and seeing that big ol' warrior walking right next to you, stomping his feet and yelling, "What are we looking at?" ;) If your rogue consistently goes off to scout and gets himself/herself in trouble, let the stupid bugger die and tell them to knock it off. If they're that bad at scouting and sneaking, they shouldn't be doing it.
I do not consider myself an expert at rogues (I don't consider myself an expert at anything in this game really), but the number of lurkers who seem to have never grouped with a rogue is just alarming to me. I can't even take my Etheramwen into instances without being horribly frustrated because no one seems to know how to group with a backstab/ambush rogue. Sapping is usually forgotten about or else no one ever knows that you can't sap something in combat so they pull and then expect a sap. If you haven't played a rogue or else grouped with a rogue, that's not something you are going to know so I don't blame people for not knowing it, but having to explain that every single time I group with people is getting very frustrating and exasperating so I posted here.
I don't think I'm asking a lot here. If you want me to sap, let me sap. If you don't want a sap, great. I have no problem with that either. Just let me actually do the damage you brought me along to do! I don't generally over aggro and if I do, feint really does work well to give it back to the tank. If that doesn't work, let me die or just worry about my own healing. Just let me backstab and ambush as I was built to do.
Edit again: Another note for tanks, if you're grouping with a rogue you haven't grouped with frequently, let them know if you normally charge pull or range pull and if you decide to pull differently for special cases, let the rogue know that just before the pull too. And if you do charge pull and your rogue is a couple of levels lower than you are, make sure you try to pull the critter back a bit after the charge. We're a bit closer to other monsters that your charge didn't wake up and when we pop out of stealth after the ambush, that closeness and higher aggro radius can do Bad Things. If there's not another critter close, don't worry about moving back
First off, about sap. We can help with pre-pull crowd control in the correct situations. Please note the pre-pull part of that sentence. If you do need to have something sapped, you must wait until you see it sapped. Rogues (all rogues) cannot sap a humanoid that is in combat. We cannot sap animals, demons, elementals or undead. We sap humanoids. That's it. We do not want to sap constantly (or at least I don't ;) ), but if you are looking at a three pull of all humanoids and you only have one other class with good crowd control and there are not other mobs close to that known three pull, let the rogue sap and remember to WAIT for the sap to go off. If there are other mobs close to the three you're looking at, that is not really a proper time for sap (unless the rogue has improved sap. Ask your rogue beforehand and give them time to answer before charging off). If you aren't sure what is or isn't a good time for a sap, you can ask your rogue. Hopefully they'll know. ;)
Second, for dagger rogues specifically, we need to be able to position ourselves behind the mobs as well as we can. Not only are we fighting latency issues and lag and just plain old poor synchonization between where the server says the critter is and where the client thinks the critter is, we are also fighting aggro bouncing. Let the main tank hold aggro. If you are off-tank, manage your aggro so the critter isn't constantly flipping between you and the tank especially if you two decide to be on opposite sides of the critter. If you are an off-tank, make sure to stay on the same side of the critter as the main tank so if you do happen to take aggro, you aren't screwing over your backstabbing/ambushing rogue. Edit: You don't have to stand exactly on the same side as the tank, but try not to go more than 90 degrees rotation in relation to the tank. This will allow the tank to know if something has stopped attacking him and starting attacking the main tank and will also allow your rogue to still be in position for backstabs.
Tanks, keep critters away from the walls if you are in an enclosed area. If your rogue can't actually fit between the critter and the wall, you're losing out on a lot of damage and it can be very frustrating for the rogue. Basically, people only see us as DPS monkeys and forget everything else we can do, but if you take away good positioning from the backstab/ambush rogue you're severely crippling our damage, the main role we are put into.
Third, if you see us stealthing to go scout something do NOT follow us unless you can stealth as well. There's nothing worse than trying to scout and seeing that big ol' warrior walking right next to you, stomping his feet and yelling, "What are we looking at?" ;) If your rogue consistently goes off to scout and gets himself/herself in trouble, let the stupid bugger die and tell them to knock it off. If they're that bad at scouting and sneaking, they shouldn't be doing it.
I do not consider myself an expert at rogues (I don't consider myself an expert at anything in this game really), but the number of lurkers who seem to have never grouped with a rogue is just alarming to me. I can't even take my Etheramwen into instances without being horribly frustrated because no one seems to know how to group with a backstab/ambush rogue. Sapping is usually forgotten about or else no one ever knows that you can't sap something in combat so they pull and then expect a sap. If you haven't played a rogue or else grouped with a rogue, that's not something you are going to know so I don't blame people for not knowing it, but having to explain that every single time I group with people is getting very frustrating and exasperating so I posted here.
I don't think I'm asking a lot here. If you want me to sap, let me sap. If you don't want a sap, great. I have no problem with that either. Just let me actually do the damage you brought me along to do! I don't generally over aggro and if I do, feint really does work well to give it back to the tank. If that doesn't work, let me die or just worry about my own healing. Just let me backstab and ambush as I was built to do.
Edit again: Another note for tanks, if you're grouping with a rogue you haven't grouped with frequently, let them know if you normally charge pull or range pull and if you decide to pull differently for special cases, let the rogue know that just before the pull too. And if you do charge pull and your rogue is a couple of levels lower than you are, make sure you try to pull the critter back a bit after the charge. We're a bit closer to other monsters that your charge didn't wake up and when we pop out of stealth after the ambush, that closeness and higher aggro radius can do Bad Things. If there's not another critter close, don't worry about moving back
Intolerant monkey.