There will be no real PvP system

[Bolty]

I'm going to have to pull one of these on you, Bolty. Did you actually read the post you're commenting on? There's lots of stuff there about an upcoming honor system.

However, I gather that what you mean is that you wanted a dishonor system to punish high level characters for killing low level characters.
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Mongo, while it may look on the outside like it's not so, I do enjoy our sparring here. :)

I realize the extreme difficulty that comes with attempting to discourage griefing and why Blizzard chose eventually not to try. However, what has me upset at them is that they promised this system for a good six months, even to include information about it in the manual, and then 2 weeks after release say "ah, forget it." They left many PvP'ers high and dry. I started playing the PvP server during closed beta because I wanted to get a char built up a bit before they put the system in...and waited, and waited, and waited, and it never came.

I've already posted my observations about the PvP server, and hyped it up a bit too, because I felt that with the honor/dishonor system put in place, it would be more fun than PvE. I'd have rather seen more of my fellow Lurkers to group with on the same server as me, of course. Now I have to turn around and advise people to go the other way, which annoys me.

You forget how many exploratory/see-everything type of players we have here, Mongo. Without an anti-griefing system in place, that style of play simply can't be done. You know, in closed beta I never finished quests in a number of areas because they were camped by griefers on a nightly basis. I can only imagine the average Lurker's reaction after trying to complete the upper-end elite quests in the Redridge Mountains only to be ganked and corpse camped for five straight nights by griefers there. It happened to me. The same scenario played out in Duskwood, Hillsbrad, Alterac Mountains, and other zones.

The solutions?

1) Try to find a less camped zone.
2) Try to get on at different times of the day, since the griefing is greatest at primetime (which is when I get to play, so that's out).

Some say, "just ask a high level for help!" This doesn't work. Why?

Because griefers live to grief you. They aren't deterred by getting killed. After all, the same rules that allow you to keep coming back for a corpse camp apply to the griefer as well. So a high-level group comes by and smacks down the griefer. So what? In 2-3 minutes, they're back. Thus, and here's the key point, the only way to stop a griefer is to grief them back. In other words, you have to be just as big a jerk to the jerk. You have to devote your entire night of play to harrassing a griefer. Since nobody's willing to do that, the griefing just goes on and on and on and on. Don't tell me you never heard of Khandahar - he was a practically legendary griefer who spent every night in Duskwood and Redrige Mountains griefing lowbies. No amount of killing ever deterred him.

And now there's nothing stopping him. Ever! An "Honor" system won't deter him. That kind of player is the 1% of the population that simply plays a game to annoy others. Killing him has no point to it. And much like RL, it's the 1% who ruin it for everyone else.

See, I enjoyed the PvP server. I won fights, I lost fights, and it was fun. But those memories of repeated gankings and griefings by that tiny, tiny minority of players is why I didn't buy this game. I want to play on PvP, I really do. But without any way to stop that 1%, the aggravation and annoyance of losing hours of playing time being forced to move somewhere else or just plain banging your head against the proverbial wall really spoils it for me. You have managed to avoid most of the problem by staying on top of or with the general level curve both times. While I'm aware you started a new Hunter, it's a lot different getting beat up on with your alt than suffering the irritating of constant murdering of your main character.

-Bolty