Presidential Debate
Chaerophon,Oct 6 2004, 10:10 AM Wrote:That's not what any of us have been saying.  Certainly not me.  The fact is, the US can hurt you in other ways... ever heard of the softwood lumber dispute?  The US is free to break NAFTA or the WTO/GATT any time they like and has demonstrated the will to do so.  Other countries aren't so lucky.
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That is what I'm hearing, but maybe not from you. I don't think the US is the only country to ever break or bend NAFTA or WTO/GAT agreements (see here).

I think those economic and trade problems exist in spite of other geopolitical upheavals like our disagreement about whether Saddam should have remained in power in Iraq, or whether the US should backslide again on international terrorism. Perhaps we should have followed the ineffective policies from the 90's and lobbed a few cruise missiles at random targets and just carried on as if 9/11 never happened.

Canada accounts for 20% of US international trade, Mexico 12%, and Japan 8% and China 9%. All four maintain large trade surpluses with the US, which makes your currency more valuable. Of the four, China is the biggest problem in that they do not allow their exchange rate to fluxuate with the market. They keep their goods artificially cheap to foreign markets, which is a factor in driving up the US trade decifit. I think there are a few upsides for being partners and allies of the US, so quit kicking us.

We understand about green house gases, and we are making changes to clean up automobilie exhaust and smoke stacks. We understand about free trade and subsidies, but we also have alot of internal pressure to save farming and save steel workers jobs. But, we are also a colossus that can at times appear to unthinkingly squash our smaller friends, and doubly so when our national interest is at stake.

If you understand what drives this juggernaut, then you would see that much of what the US does (as any nation would) is really to protect and perpetuate itself. My opinion is that the people of the US should do more to conserve and recycle, and that would reduce some of the international pressure on places that supply key strategic minerals. Not that those places would be any better to live in, only that the US wouldn't be as likely to need to get involved. If Iraq or Afghanistan were merely deserts, we wouldn't need to get involved. We might have been content to endlessly scold them as some of the other security council members.

{ I watched this guy on CSPAN today so I've got Iraq on my mind}

Some people think we are driven by greed, and perhaps some US corporations or politicians are that morally bankrupt. But, my sincere opinion is that since Iraq had the means and the will to divert their wealth into weapons to destroy us, then we had to get involved to prevent that. It appears now that we were early in needing to preempt that perceived threat, but we tilted at that windmill anyway. We broke it, and now we are stuck rebuilding it.
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.

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Presidential Debate - by Yrrek - 10-01-2004, 02:07 AM
Presidential Debate - by Taem - 10-01-2004, 02:14 AM
Presidential Debate - by Dozer - 10-01-2004, 02:15 AM
Presidential Debate - by Yrrek - 10-01-2004, 02:43 AM
Presidential Debate - by [wcip]Angel - 10-01-2004, 02:46 AM
Presidential Debate - by Minionman - 10-01-2004, 03:04 AM
Presidential Debate - by Sir_Die_alot - 10-01-2004, 03:17 AM
Presidential Debate - by Medicine Man - 10-01-2004, 03:21 AM
Presidential Debate - by Munkay - 10-01-2004, 03:32 AM
Presidential Debate - by D-Dave - 10-01-2004, 03:53 AM
Presidential Debate - by Roland - 10-01-2004, 05:41 AM
Presidential Debate - by Jester - 10-01-2004, 05:53 AM
Presidential Debate - by Sir_Die_alot - 10-01-2004, 06:11 AM
Presidential Debate - by Jester - 10-01-2004, 06:14 AM
Presidential Debate - by eppie - 10-01-2004, 07:49 AM
Presidential Debate - by ShadowHM - 10-01-2004, 11:47 AM
Presidential Debate - by ShadowHM - 10-01-2004, 11:57 AM
Presidential Debate - by Occhidiangela - 10-01-2004, 12:00 PM
Presidential Debate - by Munkay - 10-01-2004, 12:06 PM
Presidential Debate - by Sir_Die_alot - 10-01-2004, 04:18 PM
Presidential Debate - by Sir_Die_alot - 10-01-2004, 04:32 PM
Presidential Debate - by Jester - 10-01-2004, 05:07 PM
Presidential Debate - by Nicodemus Phaulkon - 10-01-2004, 05:13 PM
Presidential Debate - by ShadowHM - 10-01-2004, 06:04 PM
Presidential Debate - by nobbie - 10-01-2004, 06:10 PM
Presidential Debate - by channel1 - 10-01-2004, 06:23 PM
Presidential Debate - by kandrathe - 10-01-2004, 06:47 PM
Presidential Debate - by kandrathe - 10-01-2004, 06:49 PM
Presidential Debate - by ShadowHM - 10-01-2004, 06:55 PM
Presidential Debate - by Taem - 10-01-2004, 07:09 PM
Presidential Debate - by Sir_Die_alot - 10-01-2004, 07:09 PM
Presidential Debate - by Taem - 10-01-2004, 07:23 PM
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Presidential Debate - by Taem - 10-01-2004, 08:43 PM
Presidential Debate - by Sir_Die_alot - 10-01-2004, 09:04 PM
Presidential Debate - by D-Dave - 10-02-2004, 12:02 AM
Presidential Debate - by Minionman - 10-02-2004, 01:18 AM
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Presidential Debate - by Roland - 10-02-2004, 02:09 AM
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Presidential Debate - by JustAGuy - 10-02-2004, 04:32 PM
Presidential Debate - by kandrathe - 10-02-2004, 06:03 PM
Presidential Debate - by Chaerophon - 10-02-2004, 07:40 PM
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Presidential Debate - by WarLocke - 10-03-2004, 02:50 AM
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Presidential Debate - by Taem - 10-04-2004, 06:14 AM
Presidential Debate - by Chaerophon - 10-04-2004, 06:40 AM
Presidential Debate - by Thecla - 10-04-2004, 08:21 AM
Presidential Debate - by kandrathe - 10-04-2004, 09:20 AM
Presidential Debate - by Chaerophon - 10-04-2004, 09:40 AM
Presidential Debate - by kandrathe - 10-04-2004, 10:01 AM
Presidential Debate - by Chaerophon - 10-04-2004, 10:07 AM
Presidential Debate - by ShadowHM - 10-04-2004, 11:13 AM
Presidential Debate - by Occhidiangela - 10-04-2004, 02:25 PM
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Presidential Debate - by Tal - 10-04-2004, 02:49 PM
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Presidential Debate - by Nicodemus Phaulkon - 10-04-2004, 03:59 PM
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Presidential Debate - by Nicodemus Phaulkon - 10-04-2004, 05:29 PM
Presidential Debate - by Doc - 10-04-2004, 05:54 PM
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Presidential Debate - by Doc - 10-04-2004, 06:35 PM
Presidential Debate - by Medicine Man - 10-04-2004, 08:17 PM
Presidential Debate - by Chaerophon - 10-04-2004, 09:05 PM
Presidential Debate - by Chaerophon - 10-04-2004, 09:08 PM
Presidential Debate - by Nicodemus Phaulkon - 10-04-2004, 09:30 PM
Presidential Debate - by Doc - 10-04-2004, 10:25 PM
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Presidential Debate - by Minionman - 10-06-2004, 02:42 AM
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Presidential Debate - by Chaerophon - 10-06-2004, 03:10 PM
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Presidential Debate - by Jester - 10-07-2004, 04:00 AM
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Presidential Debate - by eppie - 10-07-2004, 07:32 AM
Presidential Debate - by eppie - 10-07-2004, 07:42 AM
Presidential Debate - by kandrathe - 10-07-2004, 08:36 AM
Presidential Debate - by kandrathe - 10-07-2004, 08:56 AM
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Presidential Debate - by Armin - 10-07-2004, 03:52 PM
Presidential Debate - by Chaerophon - 10-07-2004, 04:02 PM
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Presidential Debate - by Medicine Man - 10-07-2004, 09:02 PM
Presidential Debate - by Minionman - 10-08-2004, 12:48 AM
Presidential Debate - by Minionman - 10-08-2004, 12:50 AM
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Presidential Debate - by Minionman - 10-09-2004, 02:46 AM
Presidential Debate - by Roland - 10-09-2004, 03:49 AM
Presidential Debate - by Minionman - 10-09-2004, 03:59 AM
Presidential Debate - by Chaerophon - 10-09-2004, 04:27 AM
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Presidential Debate - by Minionman - 10-09-2004, 02:38 PM
Presidential Debate - by Urza-DSF - 10-09-2004, 06:36 PM
Presidential Debate - by Medicine Man - 10-10-2004, 02:01 AM
Presidential Debate - by nobbie - 10-10-2004, 07:12 AM
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Presidential Debate - by apandapion - 10-12-2004, 03:21 PM
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Presidential Debate - by apandapion - 10-12-2004, 03:59 PM
Presidential Debate - by NuurAbSaal - 10-12-2004, 04:29 PM
Presidential Debate - by --Pete - 10-13-2004, 02:31 PM
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Presidential Debate - by Zarathustra - 10-14-2004, 12:02 AM
Presidential Debate - by Griselda - 10-14-2004, 12:25 AM
Presidential Debate - by Minionman - 10-14-2004, 03:01 AM
Presidential Debate - by Sir_Die_alot - 10-14-2004, 04:30 AM
Presidential Debate - by Nicodemus Phaulkon - 10-14-2004, 05:22 AM
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Presidential Debate - by Occhidiangela - 10-20-2004, 05:40 PM
Presidential Debate - by eppie - 10-22-2004, 09:04 AM
Presidential Debate - by Nicodemus Phaulkon - 10-22-2004, 02:28 PM
Presidential Debate - by ManaCraft - 10-22-2004, 07:26 PM
Presidential Debate - by Occhidiangela - 10-24-2004, 03:19 AM
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Presidential Debate - by ldw - 10-25-2004, 01:35 PM
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