Rest State

[TheDragoon]

But what you and all the supporters of the system have failed to do to date (or at least I've failed to find it if it has been done) is to give a logically valid reason to have a rest state in there in the first place.

So is the fact that some people will enjoy it not a logically valid reason to have it?

What I see from Blizzard is that they're experimenting with a new idea. They want to put something in that won't *hurt* the players who play a lot, but will give something that many people who don't play as much might enjoy. I think it's great to see this sort of innovation coming out and, as they refine the system, I think it'll get to be a non-issue with those who it doesn't affect, but a nice bonus for those characters that it applies to.

Now some specific counter-points:

1.) In PvE there is no competition between players.
2.) All PvE players will get the same quests, etc. no matter how fast they level or when they start to play.
3.) In PvE, there is no competition and there is no advantage to leveling fast.
4.) Thus there is no need to either reward those that play less or punish those that play more.
5.) For PvE the rest state is meaningless!

Ok, that's from your point of view of what PvE is about. Am I right to assume that you view PvE as a sort of "single player" mode (except that you can play in teams with others) where the actions of other players shouldn't affect your character? If so, I'd say that your view is different from the view of many others. To some people, it IS more of a competition. To some, it is nice to see their character reach comparable levels to those of other players. Others might want to play around with some of the higher level content. For them, this will just speed up the process a bit so it will take maybe 4 months instead of 6 to reach some goal level.

6.) In PvP it is all about the competition.
7.) A difference of a few levels will usually dominate the competition.
8.) With people of (nearly) the same level, skill is the determining factor (if the classes are "balanced")
9.) People that play more will level faster unless there is a penalty that actually takes experience away.
10.) People that play more, and especially play PvP more, will develop better PvP skills.
11.) For PvP the rest state is useless.

I disagree here. As you say, the people who play more will level faster regardless of the rest system unless there is a penalty. That is as it should be, I would think, as the idea of actually taking AWAY experience is ludicrous. However, this is not to say that the rest state is useless. Rather, as above, if you see a lot of PvPing going on at a certain level that it would have previously taken a casual player 6 months to attain without the rest system, then perhaps they will reach it in 4 months, instead. It doesn't REMOVE the gap between the casual gamer and the hardcore gamer, but it does narrow it a bit more and make it a bit less daunting to those that wish to engage in PvP but have less time to spend on it.

However, these are just a hypothetical examples. The fact is that some people DO like the idea of the rest states. Personally, I haven't asked those other people why they like the idea but the fact that they like it should be reason enough for Blizzard to investigate the idea. Obviously, people at Blizzard like the idea because they've been pushing through it with some sort of vision in mind or they would have folded it in the face of the outspoken powergamers who feel they are being penalized. I wish I could pick at their brains for 5 minutes or so, as I could then give you a better answer to WHY Blizzard seems so set upon implementing it in some manifestation. :)

And that is my argument -- that it is a useless and meaningless measure that helps nobody in any significant way and simply increases the grind for some players.

Again, I think that this is not the intent of the rest system. With the changes made to the system to this push, we've seen Blizzard take a step toward making it less of a penalty that "simply increases the grind for some players" and more of a bonus to decrease the grind for other players. As Bolty and others have pointed it, it still feels a lot like a penalty because you start "Rested" and then later become "Tired." I would imagine that the changes made in the next push will balance the lower levels toward "Normal" (the new 100% XP) and start players there. Thus, the "Rested" bonus will really be just that, a bonus, even from the beginning of the game.