Firepower

[gekko]

1: With your logic any security using guns has raised the threat level and foced a robber to upgrade theirs. Maybe we should arm people with rubber duckys so criminals will use Nerf™sports equipment. <_<

2: You take the other side. You are assuming everyone who carries a gun has insufficient ability with it. Guns are not particularly complicated at close range. I am a horrid shot even without kickback, but even I can hit something 20 feet away

3: "My logic flat out states that if NO ONE had guns, people would be safer." As I said: "Idealogic drivel."

1) it's too easy for a poorly trained civilian (particularly in america, but I'm not singling out the states by any means) to get ahold of gns far beyond any reasonable need,
2) it's too easy to obtain weapons far beyond the need posed by hunting or self defence.

(4) Interesting word "need". If you want to start slinging that around you can get down to most people don't need a gun. Those that do what is their need? Who determins this? I doubt Doc needs half the guns he has; should he be forced to give them up should someone decide his need isn't great enough? I don't disagree with you about the current meathods used to determine who gets a firearm and who doesn't are flawed (see my previous post). However I have no problem someone who doesn't nessesarily "need" a certain firearm owning one, as long as they are law abiding and resonably proficient with it.

(1) If you think how well armed the cops are DOESN'T affect what weapons the bad guys use... well, what can I say. Those guys knew EXACTLY what they would be up against, and they knew EXACTLY what they needed to overpower them. They didn't just say to themselves "wow, that gun's cool, let's use that."

(2) I'm assuming that all it takes is ONE untrained slob with a magnum in his pocket to start more carnage than we've yet seen in a bank robbery. My point is that owning a gun gives you the power of life and death and does nothing to ensure you are capable of controlling that power.

(3) You call it idealogic drivel. I call it the truth, and suggest taking steps towards achieving that state. I don't suggest it will be easy or simple, or finished overnight, but I do believe it to be a worthy goal.

(4) Interesting indeed. I'd agree with both Doc and yourself -- Doc doesn't need his guns. If my use of the word "need" bothers you so much, replace it with whatever word you want -- my argument stands. Hunting a deer or defending your house can be acchieved without a magnum or an assault rifle.

Doc said "If I choose to play General, it's my God Given American Born Right. Not only can you form a militia, you can stockpile the weapons you need to arm it properly and organize homeland defense. When and if something should ever happen, people like me, eccentric paranoid living out in the boonies hermits will be the deciding factor. Should something happen, there will be plenty of people singing a different tune, glad that people like me are around."

People like you being around are my worst nightmare. As I said previously, if someone gathers enough military strength to batter through the US army, people like you are going to be child's play. I consider a different scenario to be more likely: somebody starts a war in our own backyard with one of those stockpiles Doc is so proud of.

Here's an interesting thing for you to consider: guns do not make you safe. Guns are designed to do one thing: injure or kill other people (or animals, but that's besides the point). The threat of using the gun to hurt someone can give you the illusion of safety, but the gun itself can only be used as an offensive weapon.

Oh, and in regards to the "don't call the bad guy a victim" idea. Those laws are in place for a very good reason: to place responsability on homeowners. Lethal force should be reserved for desperate situations, whether it's in your own home against a burglar or in a bank that's getting robbed. While I have no sympathy for the burglars in these cases and agree it's absurd to care more about the bad guy than the true victim, it doesn't take away from the responsability of the homeowner.

gekko