10-06-2003, 01:33 AM
Quote:taking a rouge (example, it would work with any class) wielding any bow, reducing her light radius to the lowest it can go, and then casting infravision to see everything around you, then shooting inactive monsters to death.
As Bob said, the style is called "Stealth (Char Class)" or "Dark (Class)." He provided one possible setup, but I'd say there are a few things to consider.
Goddammitsdark
Gotterdammerung is tons of fun for a Darkie. It can create absolutely delicious high AC outfits and its -40% Light perfectly compliments its Resists=0 effect. With fewer monsters awake, resists aren't as crucial. If you go the extra mile and obtain -80% Light, Gotter'll be pleased as punch. Why? Well...
Dark certainly can be played safely without resistances. Shooter AI won't let monsters fire unless they can see you, and it highly discourages shooting if the monster is right next to you. Ranged attackers fall into the confused shooter loop: Monster walks up to you to get in range, realizes it's too close to get off a safe shot, and walks away to reposition itself. But, uhoh, it can't see you! Walk close to get in range...
This nerfs annoying Witches, Goat and Skeleton Archers. Yay! But Dogs, Lit Demons, and Balrogs still use their non-physical attacks in melee range. Is this a problem? Mmm, not too much of one. Since you wake up so few monsters at a time these attacks shouldn't be too painful.
There remains, however, one monster class that doesn't play by these rules. Once a Mage Demon is woken up it will continue to shoot at you as long as it has line of sight to you. It'll go back to sleep after being out of your light radius for ~13 seconds, but until then it'll try its best to nail you. And H/H Advos hurt when you don't have any resists.
So, what can you do?
Mages won't have much trouble. (Naked Mages deal with this sort of thing all the time.)
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Warriors can block, but this isn't exactly ideal: FBall splash damage will get through. Mages that escape can cause even more trouble, so a Speed/Haste weapon is recommended. (Or Stone Curse+Vampire.)
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Bow Rogues will either need to dodge or soak up the damage. Imminent danger and actually having to dodge (rather than it being a luxury) adds all kinds of spice to your gaming.
Non-Gotter Setups
You certainly can achieve complete Darkness without Gotter. The trade-off can be rather substantial, though.
Nightscape + Dark Item
Nightscape is an excellent Low AC Darkie item. -40% Light, +20% resist all, and a dose of stability to boot. With an Emerald Shield a Stealth LAW can get up to 70% resist all. Much easier to find than its Amber/Dark counterpart, and the "resist armor" theme is very in-fashion with other typical LAW equipment. (It's just a tad on the low side compared to an Obsidian/Suffix shirt.) Nighty's biggest downside is that stinky Cape durability: 12/12. Hidden Shrines can fix that.
Dark Item + Dark Item
This requires a greater sacrifice than Nighty or Gotter. "The Dark" can appear only on weapons (excl. bows/staves), jewelry, and armor/helms. Being qlvl 6 the sort of things that can combine with "The Dark" are, quite frankly, crap. We're looking at the qlvl 3 to 12 range here.
Desirible Weapon Prefixes: Just about nothing. A Caster might get away with an Amber/Dark channeling weapon, but there are nicer things. Melee characters would get squat out of a Warrior's/Dark weapon compared to other available weapons. The trade-off between a KSoH and a Warrior/Dark is just too great to consider.
Desirible Armor/Helm Prefixes: Armor/Dark pairing rules out a Tank build by definition. +AC% won't do a thing but allow the item to be repaired. (Remember: The Dark is a curse. Gris doesn't normally repair cursed items.) This brings us to resistance prefixes, which can indeed be useful if you're in need. But who wants to spend time hunting an Amber/Dark shirt when it's much easier to get a Nightscape?
Desirible Jewelry: Resist prefixes are, again, desirible. ToHit prefixes are fun, but the two nicest combinations Silver/Dark and Gold/Dark are impossible! Steel/Dark isn't bad, but it's a real kick in the teeth considering you can find Gold/Radiance! (/rant) Anyhoo. Snake's/Dark is a cute-ish possible Mana/Dark ring.
The trade-off for a Dark jewel is fairly significant since Rings provide so many uses: ToHit, +Stats, Mana, Resists. But Dark jewelry can make this up to some small degree with a lesser prefix (for ToHit, Mana, Resists), but you're SOL with regard to +Stats. But keep in mind Stealth also changes the gaming dynamic: instead of having to be more powerful than a horde, you need to be more powerful than the couple of monsters you've woken up. That's the trade-off: horde control at the expense of combat buffers.
But we're not done yet: You need two Dark items to complete an outfit. That's quite possibly two jewels of the Dark. Ouch. Doable, but it's a considerable sacrifice.
What about the other Stealth uniques?
Forget about them. Gibbous Moon ain't worth using. Split Skull Shield gives too little for the sacrifice. Shadowhawk is not without natural predators: Blizz decided +15% ToHit was sufficient to make it a decent weapon. Whoops, it's not! Staff of Shadows? Find one and we'll discuss it. Then there's... Bow of the Dead! Hey, why the scowl? Oh, you've found it before. Moving right along, then.
-Light is too insignificant to be of use: Blackoak Bow, Blackoak Shield, Executioner's Blade.
Doombringer: Probably the most useful unique weapon among these, but it's not useful enough to be used outside of normal difficulty save as a Mage's statue-breaker.
Armor of Gloom: Hellfire unique. This perfectly compliments Gotter, but you'll need yet a third -Light item to reach -80%: AoG only provides -20%. Oh, and did I mention it doesn't exist in vanilla HF MP, and it morphs in vanilla HF SP? But you can find it in Hellfire: Fixed. (Oh, how shameless of me!)
Veil of Steel: For single player junkies this is one fine helm, though the Stealth bonus is only -20%.
Mostly Blind: The No-Infravision Advantage
My Gothic Hamster (Batham the Goth Ham. *rimshot*) uses the following setup: Nightscape, Steel/Dark jewel, Royal Circlet (+10% Light). What's the advantage here? You don't need Infravision. 10% Light is just enough to draw the map and wake up monsters in very close proximity. Plus you still confuse Witches! No scroll-scumming at Adria's 24-Hour InfraMart needed.
Quote:I got this idea off a variant class I made up a few days ago along with the abysmal v2+ which gives rouges infravision as a skill.
Never never never never never refer to a style as a variant! You can read about the difference here.
Quote:Considering i'm a total newb, mods please feel free to delete this post as soon as you want if you beilieve i am at fault in posting this.
I don't delete threads very often. If you're insecure about what causes moderation, read The Forum Rules.
[o: *LEMMING* :o]