What is "Heard Immunity"?

[eppie]

The countries that did very well will likely have to keep vaccinating their risk groups every year because if not the the casualties in the following years will be higher (again just like this happens with normal flue).

That's an interesting assumption, but that's all it is, an assumption. Remember this is SARS-CoV-2. Why 2? Because SARS-CoV-1 happened in 2003. You know the original SARS. So yes, it came back, 16 years later. It does not have to be an annual thing like influenza. It might be, but that isn't for sure. This may be the last time humans ever see a severe coronavirus infection like this as well. Part of the reason that we got vaccines so quickly, is because they started working on them for SARS-CoV-1 and that research was relevant. We are seeing different strains with this like we do with influenza, but that is normal too, and the vaccines efficacy is still high enough that community immunity is still possible with what we have. This epidemic may very well be like the 1918 influenza the "Spanish Flu" (which actually started in Kansas, but due to war time reporting only Spain was really reporting on it at first). That strain of influenza was super nasty, but it didn't come back year over year. This strain of coronavirus may or may not not be a yearly thing. We have evidence both ways, and considering the strain it put on the healthcare systems in many places, working to eradicate this variant makes sense.

Of course it also makes sense to try and make preventative healthcare better and more widespread and more affordable, but this isn't exactly a zero sum game either. Resources aren't infinite, but diverting them temporarily, or if things are planned well using the dedicated emergency funds that are set aside for stuff like this, to eradicate it doesn't completely stop other things from happening. It may delay them, but it's not like all other healthcare concerns, research, or efforts have stopped. I know that this pandemic has helped accelerate plans that were in the works and dragging to expand capacity at some local facilities. It's accelerated wellness projects that are focused on helping people improve diets and making healthier foods more readily available. That stuff didn't stop and in fact the need for it to be better was highlighted, because if capacity in the system isn't taken up by chronic issues, then you have more for emergencies.

But minimizing this current pandemic really doesn't help anything. That's the frustration, that's what leads people to get angry with you. We had to do something. I'm furious that the leaks that the Trump administration were downplaying it because they wanted it to just "infect everyone" didn't stay in the news cycles longer. That plan would not have worked, and it would have crashed the economy even harder than it did crash. But I'm getting off track.

The system as it stands could not sustain the pressure that unmitigated SARS-CoV-2 infections were putting on it. What has been done, and done poorly in many cases, has helped and may just be a stop gap. That is true, it may not be a long term solution. But it had to happen and it needs to continue, because increasing the robustness of a healthcare system will not and almost certainly can not happen in the span of just a year. That's stuff that takes multiple years. Depending on the deficiency, like if it's trained personnel, it could take nearly a decade to fix.

So that is part of the frustration. The simple things that helped slow stuff down and keep the healthcare systems working being ignored are just infuriating. It's not hard to wear a mask or social distance. I recognize that it is way way easier for my introverted Gen-X self than many others, but so many people just fight tooth and nail against because they are SELFISH or being blinded by their preferred information sources who love leading people to their own agendas. It is not, in general because there are lots of different areas, government overreach to mandate health related protections either. If you want to be concerned about abuse of power and over reach look no further than US assassinations via drones. Something that Obama did a lot of but at least reported on. Trump, we think, did even more of it. I say we think because he decided that he didn't need to report on it anymore. Just assassinate people, including US citizens, because. That fucking steps on my potential freedoms way fucking more than saying "Wear a mask, don't allow more than X people in Y amount of space, get a vaccine." Though perhaps a better example would be the massive data collection and not support net neutrality and the massive targeting of information that is being used for by both governments and private corps. I'm also way more worried about the power that private corporations have over the government than the government mandating shit to keep people healthy. But certain people can make a lot of money by making people think their freedoms are being trampled on. It lets them maintain a power base and control the flow of resources.

Yeah I got a bit off the path there, but I'm leaving it as it might help show why people like Bolty and I get so frustrated at some of things you and others said. And yes I can only process something many things at once in my head so yes I do lump a bunch of people together based on just a few pieces of information. Apologies for any offense that caused. I know everyone is unique, it's part of why people are awesome, but I don't have the processing capacity to treat everyone as unique all the time, and neither do you. So when you drop talking points of certain people don't be surprised if you are lumped in with them even if you only agree with 1 of their 15 points. That will get worked out if both sides continue to communicate, like it has here.

Hi kevin,

thanks for your reply. And no offence taken. You wrote a clear piece with a lot of good points and I do agree on most of them.
(my harsh reaction to Bolty was partly because he must know me a bit, seeing that I registered on this forum oin 2003 I believe, and I know he reads a lot of things, and so he must know that most things I write and do are out of an ethical and morally social point of view. I have no problems with criticism but saying I am self-centred and maybe egoistical is not something I like. That said; as far as I am concerned I have no problem anymore....I know Bolty (as far as you can know someone that you only know from some writings on a website) and he has al my respect as do most people here).

With regards to SARS-CoV-1 coming back; I assume the two are not related apart from both being a corona-virus? I mean it is not SARS-CoV-1 coming back after 16 years it is a newly formed coronavirus that affects humans. Sars Cov 1 was (I guess) much less infectious making it easier to ''end''. Seeing how the current virus goes around to me it seems quite sure it will keep coming back.....like it has come back in three waves in many countries already with a summet break in between.

A big difference with other pandemic is that Covid 19 affects a certain group (high age an/or underlying diseases) while for example the spanish flue was most harsh on young adults. I find that a big difference. I know Covid 19 can in some cases also cause rampaging immune systems becoming very dangerous without notice, but in general it is a weakening conditions which gives people the last push. So if that was it I would be fine fine with all these lockdown measures (which I obide to by the way) but it causes an enormous amount of suffering among others. And I don't mean wearing a mask and not being able to go on holiday but I mean pshychological distress leading to higher suicide rates, a general eduction lag, social problems etc. on top of that the amount of people with too late cancer diagnoses because they don't go to a dokter to have themselves checked.  Making good calculations is difficult but the loss of healthy years might be on the same level or bigger than that because of the diseases itsself. And the difference is that these problems I mentioned are suffered by kids and young adults. And not just that, it is felt harder by the lower socio-economic classes. Having to stay at home is easy if you have a nice big garden in a good neaighbourhood but not so much if you live with a family of 6 in a 60m2 mould infested appartment.
Covid 19 is causing a magnification of the divide between young and old. And in my country there are enough problems the younger generations have to deal with such as difficulty of buying houses because they just can't get the money with the ever increasing prices......and all the old timers (and myself as well by the way) have their nice house that increases 10% in value every year. This as well affects mainly the kids who don't have parents who can support them financially.

And all this is said when we somehow up till now escaped this economic crisis.


Me personally; I don't have many direct problems now;  I can work at home, me and the wife are pretty safe in the job, I am perfectly fine not going in crowded places....I spend way less money etc. etc. It is just a fear of what is coming.