12-07-2016, 08:16 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2016, 10:42 PM by FireIceTalon.)
(12-07-2016, 07:24 PM)Ashock Wrote: One of the most basic problems with communism, is that instead of striving to get rid of the poor, it strives to get rid of the rich.
Incorrect. It strives to get rid of both.
The existence of the bourgeois and the proletariat presuppose one another. Communism is the elimination or negation of the present order of things. By destroying private capital and eliminating the bourgeois (as a class), the proletariat would also eliminate itself, as a class by default. They don't exist independently of one another, their mutual existence forms a social relationship, specifically to the means of production. Communism is a classless, stateless society; not a society full of poor people or rich people. It just so happens that only the proletariat can achieve this, since the bourgeois is not a potentially revolutionary class (nor should they be, since the current social order is in their objective class interests). There are no bourgeois or proletarians in communism, no rich or poor, just human beings. I guess the thought of people not being divided into classes anymore, no longer competing for resources, and no longer putting others in categories or labeling them is terrifying to some people. The need for us to categorize and label others has always been a bit strange and at times even creepy to me.
The irony of capitalism is that theoretically, it strives to get rid of poor people, but in the end it actually just creates MORE of them. Just one of its trillion or so contradictions.
@Kandrathe, interesting post, and thanks for genuinely responding with a real post. I'll give it a closer read and reply later when I have more time.
https://www.youtube.com/user/FireIceTalon
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (on capitalist laws and institutions)
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (on capitalist laws and institutions)