Economics and China

[kandrathe]

I'll just ignore the parts where you are in essence saying, "Nuh, uh. The opposite is true." without any reasoning.

And a perfect example of your intellectual dishonesty right here. Firstly, Marxism is a mode of analysis - not a political or economic system (it does have components for analyzing political and economic systems to be sure, but is in itself not one), and therefore it cannot be imposed on anything or anyone.

Secondly, even if it could be, if the praxis is not conducive to or bears little or no theoretical continuum to the framework at hand then stating otherwise is intellectual dishonesty, or a gross misunderstanding of some type. In your case, I suspect its a bit of both but more the former.

When you say, "praxis is not conducive to or bears little or no theoretical continuum", I know you lifted this phrase from some other source you have not referenced. In translation from this muddled jargon-ese would be you are saying (i.e. "even if it could be") that IF Marxism were a political and economic theory, then the implementation was not correct. Ok, so what did they get wrong in implementation? Wait. Your first point was that this is not a political and economic theory, merely a form of historical calculus.

You cannot attribute the failings of the Soviet Union to Marx or the Marxist framework anymore than you can attribute Darwin and the theory of Evolution to neo-Nazis and white supremacists for their use of 'social darwinism' or 'natural selection' to explain and justify their racism and the continued inferior social and economic position of minorities. Well, I suppose you could, but not w/o being intellectually dishonest and looking like a complete idiot.

I could use a false equivalence, but I wouldn't want to risk "being intellectually dishonest and looking like a complete idiot. "

You seem to either willfully neglect, or maybe just don't understand (not sure which), the Marxist view of the State. The truth is, Marxists hate the state as much as we do capitalism. We don't hold the conventional view that the State is merely a neutral, arbitrary institution designed to uphold the safety of society and resolve arising conflicts. No, for us, the State is a instrument of class rule, a necessary agency developed to protect and manage the affairs of the dominant class. It doesn't matter who it is or what country it is, they all serve the same purpose. It doesn't matter to us how much lip service Uncle Joke Stalin paid to Marxism, not only because his policies AND thought was anti-Marxist, but his VERY position itself (independent of his policy or ideology) makes him anti-Marxist. It's the same reasons Obama cannot be a Marxist by default, despite what many brain-dead, American Tea Partiers think.

But, here is where we agree. I like community, and even communism when it is freely exercised by free people in small local groups. They need to have the freedom to walk away from it. They need to also be free to own property, sell their labor, save money, invest in risky ventures and engage in free commerce, without being labelled as "evil" by those same small communities of communists.

You can deny it all you want, but you made the argument that the legitimacy of an idea rests on its popularity, and I provided a couple examples that refute your logical fallacy. Not only close, and not only a cigar, but a BIG PACK of cigars for me (even though I don't smoke).

It is not a fallacy to point at the 150 years people, (the workers, and even scholars) have had to pick apart every sentence written by those early communists. In all that time, he has been given credit for his writings, where credit is due. He was a revolutionary, and he (along with other communist thinkers )spear headed a movement from Germany that eventually led to the Russian revolutions. The world has had 15 decades to thoughtfully consider these ideas, and some people have tried to implement them by force. You say that the day is coming, and I say poppycock. I'm fine with that disagreement. Look. Even you admit you haven't figured out how to live in a commune, as a communist, and you are one of them. I have some friends who live in a commune, so why can't you? If you really believe, then walk your talk.

I see no "class" cohesiveness or consciousness as envisioned by them, except in some extreme times, in some extreme places. My own father was a life long Teamster, and I've worked in some extremely unionized places, like on the railroads. I have decades of experience in the trenches, with the workers. The reality of "Life in America" is that we workers do pretty well in this political-economic system, even if it is not entirely fair. It is fair enough to prevent social discord, and at times when "the workers" organize they either get their way, sometimes lose or they destroy their nemesis.

Destroying you was a pleasure, as usual, but after your last quoted comment I am not interested anymore, since my time would probably be better spent explaining the ideas to people who can be reached, and more importantly to people who aren't morally bankrupt and/or lack empathy.

You are a petulant little boy. Grow up.