07-23-2003, 07:14 AM
This is truly my last contribution to this thread.
>>Do you honestly put these two paragraphs together without noticing that they openly contradict each other?<<
Well, let's look at them.
"The Israelis respond to terrorist attacks with military force because they have to. No self-respecting country, hell, no self-respecting HUMANS, would simply sit idly by and let their citizens be killed over, and over, and over, and over ad infinitum without doing everything possible to kill those responsible."
and
"If the "Palestinian" "leadership" had the least bit of interest in actually accomplishing their goals of giving their subjects a home, peace, and prosperity, they would adopt the non-violent tactics of M.Gandhi and M.L.King Jr."
How do those contradict each other again? The "Palestinians" are not responding to terrorist attacks. The Israelis are not carrying out terrorist attacks on "Palestinians." The Israeli military carries out military operations against terrorists in retaliation for terrorist attacks. Terrorists are criminals who intentionally target civilians. Do you remember the last time the Israeli military bombed some "Palestinian" pizza parlor just to inflict civilian casualties? No? What about the last time an Israeli climbed onboard a "Palestinian" bus and sent two dozen "Palestinians" to their slave-girl rewards? No? Perhaps there's a reason you don't remember events like that.
The Israelis attack because the "Palestinians" won't stop attacking. If the "Palestinians" wanted to kill those responsible for their suffering, they would kill Yasser Arafat and every murderous Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc. thug that infested their neighborhoods. Instead they are content to cheer their "martyrs" and curse the "Zionists" for not just meekly offering up their throats. And then they enjoy the power and water those accursed "Zionists" provide for them. What a culture! Incapable of ever creating anything like an industrial plastic shredder, but eager to buy one to feed their enemies into. It's sad. No it's not. It's sickening.
Remember the Jenin "massacre?" Probably not. Let me refresh your memory. The Israelis sent their soldiers into a booby-trapped hellhole of a "Palestinian" city called Jenin based on intelligence that several dozen Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists were holed up there. The Israelis were well aware that yes, the guys were there, and yes, they were terrorists, and yes, they'd spent the last few days turning Jenin into a booby-trapped fortress. And yet rather than take the Spectre approach ("I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.") the Israelis sent their guys in to fight hand-to-hand, house-to-house to minimize "Palestinian" civilian casualties.
For emphasis: They let Israeli soldiers die to save the lives of "Palestinian" civilians.
Are you intellectually dishonest enough to say the "Palestinians" would have given a flying f**k about Israeli civilian casualties? This one battle, alone, in a nutshell, tells you absolutely everything you ever need to know about this conflict.
A bit more history. After the Battle of Jenin was finished, the "Palestinians" began wailing about a massacre. Thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of Palestinians were executed by the Israelis! Their hands were tied behind their backs, they were forced to dig their own graves, the Israelis were raping and killing and-
What's that?
None of that was true? Oh. Well. In fact, it turns out the only thing that got massacred at Jenin were some Islamic Jihadists who had stained the surface of the Earth with their foul rot for too long anyway and the journalistic integrity of many, many newspapers. Of course, newspapers around the world (especially in oh-so-cosmopolitan Europe) carried news of the Jenin "massacre" on page A1 above the fold in 196-point font. ISRAEL KILLS THOUSANDS. EXECUTION-STYLE HORROR MURDERS OF THE ISRAELI HELL-FIENDS. THE CHILD-KILLERS OF SHARON'S DEMON ARMY. The corrections ("Sorry, we were 100% wrong in every way possible") were on page E12, just below that ad that says, "Do this prayer six times a day for six days and you will have good fortune from Jesu Cristo!" or whatever. Funny how that works, but being relatively conservative I'm used to outrageous media bias. Whoa, can't get off on THAT tangent, back to those evil Israeli terrorists.
The two sides are not morally equivalent. The Israeli military are not terrorists. That's the only way my statements can be said to contradict each other.
Or will you actually say here publicly the Israeli military's missions of retaliation, provoked entirely by terrorist attacks launched by "Palestinians" against Israeli civilians, are no different in any way from nail bombs on buses full of kids and old people? Madness. When an Israeli Apache blows up a car carrying some Hamas sh*tf**k who has the blood of literally hundreds of Israeli citizens on his hands, and some poor "Palestinians" are accidentally killed in the crossfire (a crossfire caused 100% by the terrorist attacks carried out by his fellow "Palestinians"), is it functionally identical to a "Palestinian" walking into a Passover dinner and turning it into a charnel house? Good God.
Now will you wail about the Israeli "occupation?" Go read up on it. Find out how it started. Find out why it started. Find out why the Israelis aren't real eager to give the land back. Find out what Syrian artillery captains on the Golan Heights used to do for fun. I know, KNOW, you won't do this. It's too much work, and it's too easy to just act like you know what you're talking about. Hey, it worked for Bill Clinton!
It is common knowledge amongst those who have studied this new intifada that those brave "Palestinians" blowing themselves up in crowds of Israelis dipped their shrapnel in rat poisons and pesticides. It is also common knowledge that Yasser's martyr recruiters placed a high priority on finding human bombs infected with hepatitis and other disease, so that even those poor Israelis who even got nicked (for the high crime of, for instance, going to dinner, or the grocery store) by a nail, or a chunk of hot metal, or whatever, would get to live the rest of their lives with a disease. I forget the last time the Israelis used biological/chemical weapons against Palestinian civilians. Or for that matter the last time the Israelis targetted civilians. Or the last time they sent some tanks into the West Bank just for the hell of it. Terrorist attack, retaliation. Terrorist attack, retaliation. One of these things always follows the other. Always. See what I'm getting at?
Probably not. After all, I said you need to be able to discriminate between good and evil. You need to be nasty and harsh enough to >gasp< MAKE A JUDGMENT. Maybe, in time, you will be able to.
>>Either both sides have the right to "defend" themselves, and this is going to continue until Israel is destroyed and the Arabs ruined, or both sides are going to learn Mr. Gandhi's lessons, and the killing might stop.<<
One last time. The Israelis are the ones defending themselves, against terrorists. The "Palestinians" are the ones carrying out the terrorist attacks. If you are intellectually honest, this is unarguable. Or do you think the U.S. actions in Afghanistan were terrorist attacks?
Have you ever actually read anything about the roots of the Israeli-"Palestinian" problem? If not, you should. You might find out why I always put "Palestinian" in quotes. You might discover there's no such thing. You might find out that if not for Israeli mercy, there would never have been "Palestinians." You might find out that Arabs actually created the "Palestinian" problem, and that the Arab states could end the "Palestinian" suffering in a heartbeat but don't, because they are a useful hammer against Israel and a way to kill Jews cheaply without starting an all-out war. But I don't expect you to do any reading on it.
The last word is all yours. Enjoy!
JS
Who knows right from wrong and good from evil... but still wants to play for the Empire in SWG...
>>Do you honestly put these two paragraphs together without noticing that they openly contradict each other?<<
Well, let's look at them.
"The Israelis respond to terrorist attacks with military force because they have to. No self-respecting country, hell, no self-respecting HUMANS, would simply sit idly by and let their citizens be killed over, and over, and over, and over ad infinitum without doing everything possible to kill those responsible."
and
"If the "Palestinian" "leadership" had the least bit of interest in actually accomplishing their goals of giving their subjects a home, peace, and prosperity, they would adopt the non-violent tactics of M.Gandhi and M.L.King Jr."
How do those contradict each other again? The "Palestinians" are not responding to terrorist attacks. The Israelis are not carrying out terrorist attacks on "Palestinians." The Israeli military carries out military operations against terrorists in retaliation for terrorist attacks. Terrorists are criminals who intentionally target civilians. Do you remember the last time the Israeli military bombed some "Palestinian" pizza parlor just to inflict civilian casualties? No? What about the last time an Israeli climbed onboard a "Palestinian" bus and sent two dozen "Palestinians" to their slave-girl rewards? No? Perhaps there's a reason you don't remember events like that.
The Israelis attack because the "Palestinians" won't stop attacking. If the "Palestinians" wanted to kill those responsible for their suffering, they would kill Yasser Arafat and every murderous Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc. thug that infested their neighborhoods. Instead they are content to cheer their "martyrs" and curse the "Zionists" for not just meekly offering up their throats. And then they enjoy the power and water those accursed "Zionists" provide for them. What a culture! Incapable of ever creating anything like an industrial plastic shredder, but eager to buy one to feed their enemies into. It's sad. No it's not. It's sickening.
Remember the Jenin "massacre?" Probably not. Let me refresh your memory. The Israelis sent their soldiers into a booby-trapped hellhole of a "Palestinian" city called Jenin based on intelligence that several dozen Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists were holed up there. The Israelis were well aware that yes, the guys were there, and yes, they were terrorists, and yes, they'd spent the last few days turning Jenin into a booby-trapped fortress. And yet rather than take the Spectre approach ("I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.") the Israelis sent their guys in to fight hand-to-hand, house-to-house to minimize "Palestinian" civilian casualties.
For emphasis: They let Israeli soldiers die to save the lives of "Palestinian" civilians.
Are you intellectually dishonest enough to say the "Palestinians" would have given a flying f**k about Israeli civilian casualties? This one battle, alone, in a nutshell, tells you absolutely everything you ever need to know about this conflict.
A bit more history. After the Battle of Jenin was finished, the "Palestinians" began wailing about a massacre. Thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of Palestinians were executed by the Israelis! Their hands were tied behind their backs, they were forced to dig their own graves, the Israelis were raping and killing and-
What's that?
None of that was true? Oh. Well. In fact, it turns out the only thing that got massacred at Jenin were some Islamic Jihadists who had stained the surface of the Earth with their foul rot for too long anyway and the journalistic integrity of many, many newspapers. Of course, newspapers around the world (especially in oh-so-cosmopolitan Europe) carried news of the Jenin "massacre" on page A1 above the fold in 196-point font. ISRAEL KILLS THOUSANDS. EXECUTION-STYLE HORROR MURDERS OF THE ISRAELI HELL-FIENDS. THE CHILD-KILLERS OF SHARON'S DEMON ARMY. The corrections ("Sorry, we were 100% wrong in every way possible") were on page E12, just below that ad that says, "Do this prayer six times a day for six days and you will have good fortune from Jesu Cristo!" or whatever. Funny how that works, but being relatively conservative I'm used to outrageous media bias. Whoa, can't get off on THAT tangent, back to those evil Israeli terrorists.
The two sides are not morally equivalent. The Israeli military are not terrorists. That's the only way my statements can be said to contradict each other.
Or will you actually say here publicly the Israeli military's missions of retaliation, provoked entirely by terrorist attacks launched by "Palestinians" against Israeli civilians, are no different in any way from nail bombs on buses full of kids and old people? Madness. When an Israeli Apache blows up a car carrying some Hamas sh*tf**k who has the blood of literally hundreds of Israeli citizens on his hands, and some poor "Palestinians" are accidentally killed in the crossfire (a crossfire caused 100% by the terrorist attacks carried out by his fellow "Palestinians"), is it functionally identical to a "Palestinian" walking into a Passover dinner and turning it into a charnel house? Good God.
Now will you wail about the Israeli "occupation?" Go read up on it. Find out how it started. Find out why it started. Find out why the Israelis aren't real eager to give the land back. Find out what Syrian artillery captains on the Golan Heights used to do for fun. I know, KNOW, you won't do this. It's too much work, and it's too easy to just act like you know what you're talking about. Hey, it worked for Bill Clinton!
It is common knowledge amongst those who have studied this new intifada that those brave "Palestinians" blowing themselves up in crowds of Israelis dipped their shrapnel in rat poisons and pesticides. It is also common knowledge that Yasser's martyr recruiters placed a high priority on finding human bombs infected with hepatitis and other disease, so that even those poor Israelis who even got nicked (for the high crime of, for instance, going to dinner, or the grocery store) by a nail, or a chunk of hot metal, or whatever, would get to live the rest of their lives with a disease. I forget the last time the Israelis used biological/chemical weapons against Palestinian civilians. Or for that matter the last time the Israelis targetted civilians. Or the last time they sent some tanks into the West Bank just for the hell of it. Terrorist attack, retaliation. Terrorist attack, retaliation. One of these things always follows the other. Always. See what I'm getting at?
Probably not. After all, I said you need to be able to discriminate between good and evil. You need to be nasty and harsh enough to >gasp< MAKE A JUDGMENT. Maybe, in time, you will be able to.
>>Either both sides have the right to "defend" themselves, and this is going to continue until Israel is destroyed and the Arabs ruined, or both sides are going to learn Mr. Gandhi's lessons, and the killing might stop.<<
One last time. The Israelis are the ones defending themselves, against terrorists. The "Palestinians" are the ones carrying out the terrorist attacks. If you are intellectually honest, this is unarguable. Or do you think the U.S. actions in Afghanistan were terrorist attacks?
Have you ever actually read anything about the roots of the Israeli-"Palestinian" problem? If not, you should. You might find out why I always put "Palestinian" in quotes. You might discover there's no such thing. You might find out that if not for Israeli mercy, there would never have been "Palestinians." You might find out that Arabs actually created the "Palestinian" problem, and that the Arab states could end the "Palestinian" suffering in a heartbeat but don't, because they are a useful hammer against Israel and a way to kill Jews cheaply without starting an all-out war. But I don't expect you to do any reading on it.
The last word is all yours. Enjoy!
JS
Who knows right from wrong and good from evil... but still wants to play for the Empire in SWG...