07-22-2003, 04:41 PM
I don't really like arguing on the Internet, but there are just a couple of points I'd like to make vis a vis this issue.
Here is the "Cliff's Notes" version of the last four years of the Arab-Israeli conflict:
Israel: "Please stop detonating nail bombs on crowded buses full of women and children!"
Arabs: "Not till you're all dead!"
Israel: "... Well, okay, if that's how it has to be."
Secondly, anyone remember Oslo? This was where ex-Perjurer-in-Chief Clinton got the Israelis to hold a gun to their own heads and offer to give the Palestinians literally 99% of what they wanted. Land, a "state" of "Palestine," etc. What was Yasser Arafat's response to this unbelievably (many would say "suicidally") generous offer? He went back home and started paying people to set off nail bombs on buses.
Why? Well, because the moment the "Palestinians" (I use this term not because there is such thing, but because I don't want to type out "Egyptians, Jordanians, Saudis, etc." every time) get their own country, they actually have to run their own country. And it turns out, that's hard! That's a lot harder than just setting up a few bomb factories and sending children off to die. What would happen to Yasser Arafat if suddenly all the "Palestinians" had him to blame for their miserable existence instead of the all-encompassing boogeyman Israel? What if suddenly it was Yasser and the "Palestinian Authority" who were responsible for providing power and water to the "Palestinians," something that is currently done by those evil, evil Israelis? It's a lot easier to destroy than to create. Yasser should know. He's responsible for plenty of destruction and death. Hell's gonna be hot for the ugliest man on Earth.
I also take issue with the term "cycle of violence." That implies that both sides are just as culpable. Well, they are not. The Israelis are not deliberately targetting civilians. The Israelis respond to terrorist attacks with military force because they have to. No self-respecting country, hell, no self-respecting HUMANS, would simply sit idly by and let their citizens be killed over, and over, and over, and over ad infinitum without doing everything possible to kill those responsible. When's the last time the Israelis disguised a suicide bomber as a paramedic and tried to get him thru a checkpoint in a frigging ambulance?! Remember Jenin? The Israelis could have just rolled up the heavy artillery and levelled the whole damn place, but instead they sent their brave soldiers into that rat's nest to try to (and this is important) minimize civilian casualties. In other words, to not kill people who haven't actively tried to kill Israelis.
Contrast this with the "Palestinians." Blech.
One side in this conflict is a discrete state with a military (used against those who attack or threaten that state), civilian representative government, a modern economy and infrastructure, etc. The other is a terrorist power whose leaders go out of their way to keep their subjects as powerless and miserable as humanly possible in order to perpetuate their own rule. It is mind-boggling to me that ANYONE cannot see who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are here.
Of course, there are plenty of people who don't wish to discriminate between good and evil. That certainly explains why people can look at some grubby terrorist blowing up children at a Passover dinner as "freedom fighters." >snickering< I bet George Washington and Yasser Arafat would get along so well.
If the "Palestinian" "leadership" had the least bit of interest in actually accomplishing their goals of giving their subjects a home, peace, and prosperity, they would adopt the non-violent tactics of M.Gandhi and M.L.King Jr. However, that assumes these medieval thugs have any interest in anything except their own aggrandizement and killing every last Jew on the face of the Earth. To make that assumption, you must disregard evidence and history.
/obligatory Nazi reference
Nazis had their sympathizers, too. One of the most rabid was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Yasser Arafat's mentor.
/obligatory Nazi reference
JS
Who'll now bugger off from this thread and go pick up Star Wars Galaxies
Here is the "Cliff's Notes" version of the last four years of the Arab-Israeli conflict:
Israel: "Please stop detonating nail bombs on crowded buses full of women and children!"
Arabs: "Not till you're all dead!"
Israel: "... Well, okay, if that's how it has to be."
Secondly, anyone remember Oslo? This was where ex-Perjurer-in-Chief Clinton got the Israelis to hold a gun to their own heads and offer to give the Palestinians literally 99% of what they wanted. Land, a "state" of "Palestine," etc. What was Yasser Arafat's response to this unbelievably (many would say "suicidally") generous offer? He went back home and started paying people to set off nail bombs on buses.
Why? Well, because the moment the "Palestinians" (I use this term not because there is such thing, but because I don't want to type out "Egyptians, Jordanians, Saudis, etc." every time) get their own country, they actually have to run their own country. And it turns out, that's hard! That's a lot harder than just setting up a few bomb factories and sending children off to die. What would happen to Yasser Arafat if suddenly all the "Palestinians" had him to blame for their miserable existence instead of the all-encompassing boogeyman Israel? What if suddenly it was Yasser and the "Palestinian Authority" who were responsible for providing power and water to the "Palestinians," something that is currently done by those evil, evil Israelis? It's a lot easier to destroy than to create. Yasser should know. He's responsible for plenty of destruction and death. Hell's gonna be hot for the ugliest man on Earth.
I also take issue with the term "cycle of violence." That implies that both sides are just as culpable. Well, they are not. The Israelis are not deliberately targetting civilians. The Israelis respond to terrorist attacks with military force because they have to. No self-respecting country, hell, no self-respecting HUMANS, would simply sit idly by and let their citizens be killed over, and over, and over, and over ad infinitum without doing everything possible to kill those responsible. When's the last time the Israelis disguised a suicide bomber as a paramedic and tried to get him thru a checkpoint in a frigging ambulance?! Remember Jenin? The Israelis could have just rolled up the heavy artillery and levelled the whole damn place, but instead they sent their brave soldiers into that rat's nest to try to (and this is important) minimize civilian casualties. In other words, to not kill people who haven't actively tried to kill Israelis.
Contrast this with the "Palestinians." Blech.
One side in this conflict is a discrete state with a military (used against those who attack or threaten that state), civilian representative government, a modern economy and infrastructure, etc. The other is a terrorist power whose leaders go out of their way to keep their subjects as powerless and miserable as humanly possible in order to perpetuate their own rule. It is mind-boggling to me that ANYONE cannot see who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are here.
Of course, there are plenty of people who don't wish to discriminate between good and evil. That certainly explains why people can look at some grubby terrorist blowing up children at a Passover dinner as "freedom fighters." >snickering< I bet George Washington and Yasser Arafat would get along so well.
If the "Palestinian" "leadership" had the least bit of interest in actually accomplishing their goals of giving their subjects a home, peace, and prosperity, they would adopt the non-violent tactics of M.Gandhi and M.L.King Jr. However, that assumes these medieval thugs have any interest in anything except their own aggrandizement and killing every last Jew on the face of the Earth. To make that assumption, you must disregard evidence and history.
/obligatory Nazi reference
Nazis had their sympathizers, too. One of the most rabid was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Yasser Arafat's mentor.
/obligatory Nazi reference
JS
Who'll now bugger off from this thread and go pick up Star Wars Galaxies